Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Public Hearing
May 31, 2001
Commission Hearing RoomTexas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
1 7 BE IT REMEMBERED, that heretofore on the 31st day of 8 May, 2001, there came to be heard matters under the 9 regulatory authority of the Parks and Wildlife Commission 10 of Texas, in the Commission Hearing Room of the Texas 11 Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, Texas, 12 beginning at 9:15 a.m., to wit: 13 14 15 APPEARANCES: THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION: 16 CHAIR: Lee M. Bass, Fort Worth, Texas 17 Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas Phil Montgomery, III, Dallas, Texas 18 Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas 19 Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas Katharine Armstrong Idsal, San Antonio, Texas 20 Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas Joseph Fitzsimons, San Antonio, Texas 21 22 THE TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION: Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director, and other personnel 23 of the Parks and Wildlife Department 24 25 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 2 1 OTHER APPEARANCES: Mr. Walt Lewis 2 Clifton Shooting Club 564 CR 4150 3 Clifton, Texas 76634-5018 4 Mr. Ellis Gilleland "Texas Animals" 5 POB 9001 Austin, Texas 78766 6 Mr. David K. Langford 7 Texas Wildlife Association 8 Mr. J.N. Rimes Texas Deer Association 9 POB 1550 Jacksonville, Texas 75766 10 Mr. Jon Henderson 11 TDA Box 221 12 Meridian, Texas 7665 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 3 1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Good morning. I'd like to 2 call this meeting of the Parks and Wildlife Commission to 3 order. 4 Mr. Sansom, are you live? 5 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Mr. Chairman, 6 a public notice of this meeting containing all items on 7 the proposed agenda has been filed in the Office of the 8 Secretary of State as required by Chapter 551 of the 9 Government Code. This is referred to as the Open 10 Meetings Law and I would like for this action to be noted 11 in the official record of the meeting. 12 Ladies and gentlemen, I would, along the 13 Chair and members of the Commission, like to welcome you 14 here this morning. We appreciate each of you coming to 15 participate in our meeting. The Chairman, for the last 16 time today is in charge of the meeting, and I will as 17 always be assisting him as Sergeant at Arms. I want to 18 remind you that we've got sign-up cards out in the hall 19 for everyone who wishes to speak. And Chairman Bass will 20 call the names from these cards one at time and each of 21 you will be allowed to come forward and speak from this 22 podium in front of me one at a time. When you're name is 23 called, I would like to ask you to come to the podium, 24 state your name and who you represent, if anyone other 25 than yourself. The Chairman may wish to call the next ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 4 1 person in line and if you could be so kind as to come to 2 the back of the room and be ready, then we can move the 3 meeting along in an orderly fashion. 4 As all of you know, our -- our practice 5 here is to ask each person who wishes to address the 6 Commission, to -- to limit their remarks to three 7 minutes. I'll keep time with this little traffic clock I 8 have here. And let you know when your three minutes are 9 up. And when your time is up, I'd like to ask you to 10 resume your seat so that others may speak. 11 Your time can be extended if a 12 Commissioner asks you a question or if the Commissioners 13 discuss things among themselves, that will not be counted 14 against you. It's very, very important that you at all 15 times remain professional and not be argumentative or 16 critical of others because I will not tolerate that. I 17 would like to ask you that if you have anything to submit 18 to the Commission in written form that you give it to Ms. 19 Estrada here on my right and she'll make sure the 20 Commissioners get it. So once again, thank you very much 21 for being here today and we look forward to your 22 participation in our Commission meeting. 23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. The first 24 order of business will be approval of the minutes from 25 our previous meeting. Commissioner Dinkins, I believe ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 5 1 you had some corrections. 2 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Yes. Thank you, Mr. 3 Chairman. On Page 36, Line 14, 15, and 16 there were 4 several sentences that were missing a couple of words and 5 I wanted to ask that we insert those. This is from 6 remarks by Dr. Jerry Cooke and I have gone over these 7 sentences with him and confirmed the correct language. 8 In Line 14 there should be a period after "withdrawn." 9 And then insert "we have comments," and then in line 15 10 insert "they" before the last word in that line which is 11 "are." And then in Line 16 include a period after the 12 word "them" and capitalize "they." And I think that will 13 clarify his remarks. 14 And then on Page 39, Line 18 after 15 "currently" insert "have." 16 On Page 91, Line 12 there's a typo. It 17 says "if" rather than "it." 18 On Page 100, Line 5 the word "muscles" is 19 the wrong kind of "mussels." And then on Page 104 Mr. 20 Tomme Actkinson's name is spelled differently than it was 21 spelled on Page 55 when he initially spoke. And 22 similarly on page -- well, on Page 55 I marked how it 23 was. And then on Page 111, Line 22 there should be a 24 comma after "Cooper Lake." 25 On Page 113 "code" should be capitalized ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 6 1 and on Page 123 -- I'm sorry. That was Line 10 and on 2 Page 123, Line 15 "it's" should not have the apostrophe. 3 And with those corrections, Mr. Chairman, I move the 4 approval of the minutes. 5 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second. 6 CHAIRMAN BASS: A motion and a second. 7 All in favor? 8 ("Aye"). 9 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? 10 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Good job. 11 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have the cleanest sets 12 of minutes of any agency in the State of Texas. 13 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Well, 14 Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that I get paid extra for 15 reading them. 16 CHAIRMAN BASS: That's right. She gets 17 two cookies at Wednesday lunch. 18 The next order of business is acceptance 19 of gifts to the department. A list of, you know, of 20 which has been distributed in the Commission meetings 21 book for review. Are there any questions or comments, or 22 if not the Chair would entertain a motion. 23 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Move approval. 24 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second. 25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second. All ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 7 1 in favor. 2 ("Aye"). 3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? Hearing 4 none, motion passes. 5 TPWD DONATIONS OF $500 OR MORE 6 (Donors are listed in the following order: 7 Donor; Description; Purpose of Donation) 8 9 (1) First National Bank of Athens; CASH; Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center 10 (2) ALCOA; Trailer; White Oak Creek WMA (3) S.A.G., Inc.; Fuel; CCA/CPL Marine Development 11 Center (4) Greater Mission COC; CASH; The Great Texas 12 Birding Classic (5) Swarovski Optik North America; CASH; The Great 13 Texas Birding Classic (6) Reliant Energy; CASH; The Great Texas Birding 14 Classic (7) American Conservation & Education Society 15 (Houston Safari Club); CASH; Hunter Education Program 16 (8) HAAS Outdoors, Inc.; Hunting Clothing; Hunter Education Program 17 (9) Highland Industries; Hunter Orange Vests; Hunter Education Program 18 (10) Doskocil Manufacturing Company, Inc.; Doskocil Gun Cases; Hunter Education Program 19 (11) Winchester Ammunition; Ammunition and Literature; Hunter Education Program 20 (12) Walls Industries, Inc.; Hunter Orange Vests; Hunter Education Program 21 (13) Big John's Soft Plastics; Fishing Lures; Angler Education Program 22 (14) Shakespeare; Rod and Reel Combinations; Angler Education Program 23 (15) Parks and Wildlife Foundation; CASH; State Park Marketing Materials 24 (16) H Yturria Land & Cattle Company; CASH; Lone Star Land Stewards 25 (17) Farm Credit Associations of Texas; CASH; Lone Star Land Stewards ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 8 1 (18) 100 Club; Airboat & Trailer; Game Warden Patrol Activities 2 (19) City of Bay City; CASH; Great Texas Birding Classic 3 (20) American Electric Power; CASH; Great Texas Birding Classic 4 (21) Travis Audubon Society; CASH; Great Texas Birding Center 5 (22) Fancy Publications, Inc.; CASH; Great Texas Birding Center 6 (23) ATSKO, Inc.; Booklets, Packets, Cleaning Rods; Hunter Education Program 7 (24) Doskocil Manufacturing Company, Inc.; Doskocil Gun Cases; Hunter Education Program 8 (25) Texas Bighorn Society; Food; Desert Bighorn Sheep Project 9 (26) Friends of the Fulton Mansion; CASH; Travel Expenses 10 TOTAL $118,205 11 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Mr. Chairman, 12 if you could join me at the podium, at this time I would 13 like to -- to welcome our new Commissioners, Mr. Phil 14 Montgomery and Mr. Joseph Fitzsimons. I will know that 15 you will find as all of us who have served Parks and 16 Wildlife have found that it is a real privilege and we 17 appreciate your taking the time out of your lives to 18 become our newest volunteers. 19 This is the time of the meeting in which 20 we recognize what it is that makes this department 21 great. It's -- it's the people who work here and the 22 people who support our agency in all of its various 23 programs. This morning I have several employees that 24 have worked long and hard at Parks and Wildlife that I 25 would like to ask each of you to join me in recognizing. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 9 1 The first is Ed Werland. 2 Ed is an employee of Human Resources 3 Division here and he's worked at Parks and Wildlife for 4 25 years. He began as a registered architect. He has 5 worked in the planning and designs area as a landscape 6 architect and park planner. In 1979 he became a project 7 manager in master planning. But over the years Ed has 8 really distinguished himself as a -- as a sort of a 9 master trainer and teacher. We loaned him for a while, 10 unfortunately, to the Governor's -- for us, but good for 11 them -- to the Governor's Center for Management 12 Development where he established several from programs in 13 the Governor's office which still exist today. He 14 brought his expertise back as a training specialist 15 and -- and worked for a time as -- in that function in 16 the Public Safety Branch for State Parks. He worked as a 17 training specialist in the Human Resources Division and 18 he's been a major force in developing throughout our 19 culture what we call purchase driven team building. This 20 effort on Ed's part has increased the productive of many 21 of the teams at Park and Wildlife and teamwork is of our 22 highest values. For this service, Ed had been recognized 23 recently in May as a certified senior professional in 24 Human Resources which is the highest credential among HR 25 professionals. Please recognize from Human Resources ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 10 1 with 25 years of service to Parks and Wildlife, Ed 2 Werland. 3 (Applause.) 4 MR. WERLAND: Where do I stand? 5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Right between us. 6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thanks Ed, 7 congratulations. 8 (Applause.) 9 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: One of my 10 closest friends in the department is a woman who is a 11 valued professional, a good friend, and -- and one of 12 those people who always has a smile for you no matter 13 what the difficulties that we're going through. 14 Toni Oldfather has been here 20 years. 15 She came to work in Coastal Fishery, Inland Fisheries in 16 1981. At that time we -- we had a hatchery program 17 within Inland Fisheries which later became a branch of 18 the old Fisheries Division. And while Toni was there as 19 an administrative technician, the renovations to the San 20 Marcos Hatchery were completed and the John Wilson Fish 21 Hatchery was constructed, which began the sequence of 22 events that -- that ultimately resulted in both Sea 23 Center and the Texas Freshwater Fishery Center as the 24 state -- most state-of-the-art hatcheries perhaps in the 25 world. In 1989 Toni went to work for Larry McKinney in ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 11 1 Resource Protection as his Administrative Assistant and 2 then later in the decade became the Budget Management, 3 the grants coordinator, the LBB coordinator, and the 4 Legislative Liaison for the Resource Protection. When 5 she came to work in 1981 she thought she'd only be here a 6 year and thankfully she's still here today with 20 years 7 of service. Toni Oldfather from Resource Protection. 8 (Applause.) 9 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: How are you 10 doing, Toni? 11 CHAIRMAN BASS: It's been a long year. 12 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: It's been a 13 long year Lee said. 14 MS. OLDFATHER: Yes, it has. It's been 15 getting longer. 16 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thanks Toni. 17 (Applause.) 18 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: You-all will 19 remember several years ago at our employee awards 20 ceremonies which are coming up, by the way, this year in 21 August, we recognized Annice Storey for her work in East 22 Texas. She began work at the Department in April of 1981 23 at what was at that time called the Management Research 24 Station in Tyler. And it's interesting to note that 25 yesterday in our discussions about quail the question was ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 12 1 answered -- the question was asked well what about 2 release birds. At that time the facility that we managed 3 in Tyler was basically a hatchery that produced various 4 species of game birds for release including quail, turkey 5 and pheasant. And of course as -- as we have seen over 6 the years, the limiting factor is habitat and so that 7 program has no longer been there. But with Annice's help 8 and she is basically responsible for the grounds and 9 facilities of what we now call the Nature Center which 10 will be in partnership with the Tyler Woods and Waters 11 Club, the East Texas Ecological Foundation, the principal 12 nature center for outreach in East Texas. Annice has 13 been highly involved in this process. She's a hunter 14 education instructor and she was promoted in 1997 as a 15 Wildlife Technician. She lives in Tyler and she takes 16 care of one of the neatest little facilities that we've 17 got in our system. Please recognize with 20 years of 18 service Annice Storey from the Wildlife Division. 19 (Applause.) 20 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: 21 Congratulations. 22 MS. STOREY: Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Congratulations. 24 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: There's a 25 great video of Annice driving a tractor that I want ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 13 1 you-all all to see at some point. 2 MS. STOREY: Thank you. 3 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: 4 Congratulations, Annice. 5 MS. STOREY: Thank you. 6 (Applause.) 7 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Perhaps, 8 Mr. Bass, one of the greatest gifts to the future of 9 Texas during your long service here has been the creation 10 of the Big Bend Ranch and today we have a great privilege 11 of recognizing two neighbors of the Big Bend Ranch who 12 have donated lands to the park and increased its legacy 13 and gift to the future. I want to introduce you first to 14 Julius and Marilyne Dieckert of College Station. They 15 are professors who have made many sacrifices in their 16 lives. On -- on basically state salaries they acquired 17 seven sections of land adjacent to the Solitario, which 18 is one of the most significant geological formations in 19 America and they have donated this property known as the 20 Masada Ridge Wilderness to the department. 21 I know of no other lands within the 22 holdings of the department where someone actually used 23 their own funds to come in and purchase property along 24 the boundary with the intent of donating it to Texas 25 Parks and Wildlife. Please recognize Drs. Julius and ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 14 1 Marilyne Dieckert of College Station, Texas. 2 (Applause.) 3 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Please come 4 forward. These are our conservation heroes. Thank you. 5 DR. DIECKERT: Thank you. 6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you. 7 DR. DIECKERT: Thank you all very much. 8 DR. DIECKERT: Thank you. 9 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Another family 10 that was a neighbor of ours at Big Bend Ranch were John 11 and Beryl Rice. I remember the first time I met John 12 Rice was at the old airport in Marfa. John had this 13 little bitty helicopter that at quite an advanced age he 14 was still flying back and forth from Marfa to the ranch 15 headquarters at La Mota Mountain. And he would be out 16 there with a little strobe light of some kind making sure 17 that the -- that the helicopter was properly tuned so he 18 could fly it out to the ranch where he spent the last 19 years of his life there in Marfa with his wife Beryl who 20 is an artist of note in the area. Mr. and Mrs. Rice were 21 great neighbors. They were at the event that we 22 celebrated the closing of the purchase of Big Bend Ranch, 23 they were there. And thanks to the wonderful efforts of 24 people like Delton Daugherty who is here today and others 25 Luis Armendariz, the Rices continued throughout their ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 15 1 lives to be neighbors. They passed away, unfortunately, 2 as -- and left this ranch to Big Bend Ranch State Park, 3 the La Mota Ranch. For those of who have been to Big 4 Bend, La Mota is probably one of its most prominent 5 features and it can be seen from our Sauceda 6 headquarters. We shared that bequest with Mrs. Rice's 7 son, Jim Donnell, who is here with us today. And in a 8 wonderful transaction of where he continued that spirit 9 of generosity, an additional 13,000 acres of some of the 10 most beautiful property in the Trans Pecos have been 11 donated to the park. 12 La Mota Mountain, as I mentioned, which 13 is -- which is now completely within the Big Bend Ranch 14 can be seen from headquarters and Terneros Creek is one 15 of the most spectacular Cottonwood galleries anywhere in 16 Texas. Please recognize Jim Donnell who is here today 17 with us. 18 (Applause.) 19 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: And I believe 20 he has his wife here as well. 21 MR. DONNELL: Thank you. 22 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you. Hi, 23 Ms. Donnell. How are you? Nice to see you. Thanks for 24 coming. 25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 16 1 MR. DONNELL: Thank you. 2 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thanks, 3 Ms. Donnell. 4 (Applause.) 5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Win, win. 6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Members and 7 Mr. Chairman, the Southern States Boating Law 8 Administrators Association is comprised of 18 states, the 9 commonwealth of Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands. This 10 association was created to promote boating safety and 11 achieve uniformity in boating laws from state to state. 12 This is accomplished by establishing standards, safety 13 education, and boating enforcement practices. This month 14 at the 40th annual conference of the Southern States 15 Boating Law Administrators Association, one of finest 16 Texas game wardens along with officers from each of the 17 other member states was recognized for his 18 accomplishments. 19 Edward Tanuz graduated from the 40th Game 20 Warden Academy in 1987 and went to work immediately in 21 Galveston County. He's worked to develop an educational 22 program in his area to train local law enforcement 23 personnel in marine safety and devotes much of his time 24 to community service related to water safety. Search and 25 rescue efforts are a common occurrence in the Galveston ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 17 1 Bay system and Edward has been -- he's always in the 2 water when the need arises. 3 One recent incident occurred on July 4th 4 when Edward was patrolling the Texas City Dike, observed 5 a woman fall off a float about 30 yards from shore and 6 began to struggle in the water. He grabbed a life 7 jacket, he swam to her and grabbed her and pulled her 8 back to shore and was credited for saving her life. Is 9 it my privilege and honor to present to you the 2001 10 Texas Marine Safety Officer of the year Game Warden 11 Edward Tanuz. 12 (Applause.) 13 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: 14 Congratulations. 15 MR. TANUZ: Thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN BASS: Congratulations. 17 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thanks. 18 MR. TANUZ: Thank you. 19 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: We never tire 20 of recognizing our partner Dow Chemical which has done so 21 much for Parks and Wildlife. Today we have the privilege 22 of recognizing a new partner in that great corporation, 23 Dow AgroSciences. They've assisted in a major Parks and 24 Wildlife quail research project in East Texas called 25 Pastures for Upland Birds. And it's particularly ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 18 1 fitting, I think, that we although unplanned, that we 2 recognize them today after all of our discussion 3 yesterday about the habitat needs of quail and the issues 4 related to the survival of quail as a -- as a specifies 5 for us to use and enjoy. 6 This project is designed to evaluate the 7 wildlife benefits and cost effectiveness of actually 8 converting coastal bermuda grass fields back to native 9 pastures. In order to make that possible, Dow 10 AgroSciences contributed about $10,000 worth of herbicide 11 which along with donations from the National Fish and 12 Wildlife Foundation, the Cross Timbers Chapter of Quail 13 Unlimited, and local farmers we're trying to determine 14 whether or not that can actually be done. 15 My colleague Matt Wagner, who's the 16 wildlife division biologist who designed this project is 17 here today to help present the award. And I would like 18 for Matt and Dow employees Rick Borgogni, Daryl Evans and 19 Ron Dipprey to come forward at this time and receive our 20 thanks for their contribution to this important project. 21 (Applause.) 22 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Hey, guys. 23 Thanks, guys. Thank you very much. Thank you very 24 much. Hey, Matt, congratulations old friend. 25 MR. WAGNER: Step back here, there may be ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 19 1 a little bit more room. 2 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: This a limited 3 edition print which is given to those who support our 4 wildlife research program and a certificate of 5 appreciation. 6 CHAIRMAN BASS: This company is the best 7 corporate partner we have -- bar none. 8 MR. NOTTINGHAM: One, two, three. 9 Thanks. Thank you. 10 (Applause.) 11 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you 12 all. I guess I hoped this day would never come. For the 13 last six years Lee Bass has been my boss. I've never 14 lasted that long with any other supervisor, so, Lee, I 15 guess Nona and I both are grateful to you that I'm still 16 getting a paycheck. I would like to begin what I hope is 17 some things that you would like and enjoy and remember us 18 by with the video that Mark Southern and Bruce Biermann 19 have prepared for us this morning. 20 (Farewell videotape played.) 21 (Applause.) 22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you all very much. 23 I promised myself I wouldn't choke up today but you're 24 testing me. The -- I guess, you know, the last year or 25 so I -- I have given some thought to what I would say at ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 20 1 this moment and -- and I'm sure I could go on for hours 2 of the things that -- that I'm very proud of that -- that 3 we've accomplished here in the last 12 years. But 4 I'll -- I'll avoid that, I think we all -- we all share 5 those, those same -- those same thoughts of -- of 6 accomplishment and pride. 7 I would like to thank a lot of people. 8 The employees, you guys and girls make my job look easy 9 really. It really is the -- the finest group of -- of 10 conservation agency people, I think, anywhere. I -- I 11 wish it was possible that our former Governor and now 12 President could take us all to Washington 'cause we could 13 straighten some things out. I'd like to thank my 14 family. They've been very supportive and sacrificed, you 15 know, a lot of things to -- so that I could do this. 16 The -- I guess the -- the one -- one or two key thoughts 17 that I would like to leave -- leave everybody with in 18 their mind is that, you know, I -- I think that when we 19 have tried to work with our constituents, our 20 stakeholders in a cooperative manner being sensitive to 21 their needs, their -- their fears, tried to build a -- a 22 feeling of mutual trust and respect is -- is when we have 23 accomplished the most long-term good. It's a -- it's a 24 method that I hope every -- I hope this agency never 25 abandons. And I'd like to say I've enjoyed this. It's ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 21 1 been very satisfying. And I think it's been satisfying 2 because what -- what we do here is important. 3 I think -- I think all of us recognize 4 that there is something about the out of doors that -- 5 that is an integral part of the human psyche and -- and 6 that we all need that. I think there are a lot of urban 7 people, urban kids that don't understand that and I think 8 it's very important we continue to try to do everything 9 we can to -- to help them realize that and open their 10 eyes. Thank you-all. It's been fun. It's been a good 11 ride. 12 (Applause.) 13 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Mr. Chairman, perhaps 14 you would indulge the members each of the Commission to 15 make a public good-bye to you. And I will go first and 16 say that I think indeed you have left Texas a better 17 place. And it's been a great joy to serve on the 18 Commission with you and we will miss your leadership, but 19 look forward to seeing you whenever you can give us more 20 time. 21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Lee -- 23 CHAIRMAN BASS: I feel like a Wake. This 24 is -- 25 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I know. You were ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 22 1 worried about your composure. I lost mine. 2 Lee, thank you for all you've done for the 3 State of Texas. If people really understood the amount 4 of time that Mr. Bass has dedicated and his family too to 5 this wonderful department and to our wonderful state 6 there would be no shortage of gratitude for his efforts. 7 I really do believe that -- that the job you've done is 8 the definition of what all citizens should do for their 9 state. You've done it in your way in the best possible 10 way. And you've -- making our job now that you're -- 11 you're going to be leaving, but you're leaving the job we 12 still have yet to do, I'm in my garbled syntax here, a 13 much easier job and -- and I don't see the focus that 14 you've brought to the Commission over the past 12 years 15 changing too much. 16 You've -- you've given a long-term view 17 for us to follow and -- and we should be very grateful to 18 you. Thank you. 19 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Lee, I have to say 20 it's been a great pleasure to serve with you and I think 21 you're been a role model to -- to all of us and to all 22 the people that have observed the leadership that you 23 brought to this organization. And the good that you've 24 done for the State and we're going to miss you a lot. 25 And I know you'll go on to do a lot of great things and ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 23 1 otherwise and you've done so many other things for the 2 State already. Again, it's been an honor to be -- to be 3 working with you. 4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Ernie. 5 COMMISSIONER WATSON: I don't want to be 6 last. And I think with what we've seen and what 7 everybody has said and we said last night, you know, 8 really has said it all, but, you know, I've only be here 9 two years, Lee, but you've been an inspiration to me. 10 This has been a wonderful, wonderful experience for 11 myself and -- and it's really due to a great part to the 12 direction that you've given us and the involvement that 13 you've, you know, had with all of us. And I tell you 14 what, we're really going to miss you. And I tell you 15 what, I hope you of come back soon. Thank you. 16 MR. FITZSIMONS: Mr. Chairman, I know it's 17 my first day as a Commissioner and not as -- probably not 18 very smart to start when the -- when the greatest 19 chairman as the Commission has probably ever known is 20 leaving. That's bad timing on my part. But I've -- I've 21 seen you work and as the video pointed out, ten years ago 22 things were not necessarily going to turn out this well. 23 And you made the difference. And I'm getting choked up, 24 but I can tell you I was there and there was a time when 25 we were in danger of this department becoming ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 24 1 disconnected from the very resource it's committed to, 2 and especially from the people that live on that 3 resource. And you changed that. You made -- you made 4 the right things happen and I want to thank you for 5 your -- for your loyalty and your commitment to the 6 resource and to the people of this department. Thank 7 you. 8 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thanks. 9 COMMISSIONER AVILA: I guess I'll go next 10 and say -- take it a different direction and -- and -- 11 and say to you how many ways can so many people say they 12 care a great deal about -- about you personally. And I 13 think all the things that we've said about your 14 leadership and the greatest things that you've done for 15 the State are indeed true and accurate. But -- but the 16 thing that -- that -- that has meant the most to me is -- 17 is -- is to see the environment and -- and -- and the -- 18 the attitude and the atmosphere that -- that is in this 19 department and throughout the far reaches of the State 20 whether it be a state park or wildlife management area 21 where I've gone and said these many -- that many people 22 just can't be that happy, and -- and -- but they are. 23 And -- and I think -- I think that starts from the top 24 and -- with you, Lee, and -- and the way that you've 25 engaged us all and got us to be part of this magnificent ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 25 1 team and -- and that legacy will go on for quite some 2 time. 3 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: I have the least 4 background here. I'm going to leave the most eloquent 5 speaker to last, but I do want to tell you that -- 6 COMMISSIONER HENRY: I'm used to be being 7 last, Phil. 8 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: But I -- I will 9 say I -- it's very impressive to me to walk in new and 10 see a government agency work in a cooperative voluntary 11 manner that's befitting a free society and this is a real 12 model to me. I've served on other government agency 13 boards and as a citizen, businessman, I've been exposed 14 to many, many branches of government and this more than 15 any I've seen has that spirit that's befitting a free 16 society and appropriate and everyone turns that back to 17 your leadership and your philosophy and gives you 18 credit for it. So hats off to you. I think that's a 19 very profound thing and it should have a long, long 20 legacy. 21 And the other observation I would add I 22 think more than anyone here I see the cumulative impact 23 of years of good leadership walking and seeing a slice of 24 it very quickly with no background, and it's quite 25 impressive. I hope you're very proud and I hope your ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 26 1 family is very proud of it. That does come from 2 leadership. It's doesn't happen by accident. So it's a 3 pleasure to have served with you for a day and good luck 4 to you and thank you for all you've done for the 5 department. For Texas. 6 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Lee, when I was 7 appointed to the Commission everyone told me how much I 8 would enjoy this assignment and they were right. And 9 that's largely in part because of you and Andy and others 10 that set the -- the leadership stage for the rest of us. 11 You welcomed us here, you showed us by example what it 12 was like to -- to lead and to be a team leader and to 13 contribute to the welfare of the people of this State and 14 we all applaud you for that. 15 But I think all of us would jointly, 16 separately as well as jointly thank you for not only your 17 leadership but for your friendship and you've meant a 18 great deal to all of us. You will mean a great deal to 19 us. I'm delighted that the family is here to -- to 20 witness this moment with us. It's -- I spoke to my wife 21 this morning and she said you sound kind of sad. I said, 22 yeah, I'm a little sad. She said, why? I said, well 23 this will be Lee's last meeting and she said, yeah, you 24 got a right to be a little sad. 'Cause you've done a 25 great job for the State and you've been quite a leader ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 27 1 for all of us and we want you to know how much we 2 appreciate you. So thank you for everything. 3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Thank all of 4 you for -- for a lot of kind words and -- and I -- I 5 would be remiss not to mention how much it means to me 6 that one of the people in the audience today is -- is Tim 7 Hixon who was appointed by Governor Clements the same 8 time I was to this Commission so many years ago and we 9 were wild-eyed rookies and -- and -- and didn't quite 10 know what we were getting into. But I appreciate deeply 11 Tim making the effort to -- to come up from San Antonio 12 today. And as I -- as I told him in the hall earlier 13 that I'm -- I'm looking forward to finally gaining 14 membership to what is the ultimate outdoorsman's club in 15 the State of Texas which is the Former Commissioner's 16 Club. And all you too can be a member at some point in 17 time, but I've had the privilege of -- I counted it up, 18 it's amazing I've sat up here with 25 different 19 individuals counting our two new Commissioners this 20 morning and I have to say that I've enjoyed a 21 relationship with each and every one of them and it's -- 22 it's been a wonderful culture that -- that was here long 23 before I arrived on -- on this Commission of -- of 24 developing bonds of friendship, mutual respect even 25 when -- when there was disagreement on -- on various ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 28 1 policy issues. And a very strong nonpartisan spirit 2 of -- of doing the job we were appointed to come here to 3 do, and -- and -- and putting personal interest and 4 biases aside. So it's -- it's -- it's been fun, but -- 5 but it's -- it's a fun outdoorsman's club that I'm 6 looking forward to be a full-time member of now. So, 7 anyway, thanks, Tim. 8 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: 9 Mr. Chairman, I can assure that everyone in the room and 10 everyone who works throughout this department shares the 11 feelings and thoughts that have been expressed today. 12 Every employee who has marveled at your command of the 13 most arcane and complicated scientific and financial 14 information, who's understood the depth of your support 15 of our work and who has experienced the kind and 16 thoughtful humanity that make you a gentleman. On behalf 17 of all the employees, nearly 3,000 men and women who work 18 in this great department, I want to give you something to 19 remember us by that was created by an employee. This is 20 an original pastel of South Texas white tail deer done by 21 Rob Fleming for you. 22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. 23 (Applause.) 24 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Finally, 25 members of the Commission, ladies and gentlemen, I know ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 29 1 that each of you has taken note of the beautiful new 2 conference room that Scott Boruff whose team of designers 3 and craftsmen have created to provide us with a badly 4 needed new capability here and a lovely view of the 5 outdoors from our lobby. I would like at this time, 6 Madam Vice-Chairman, to ask for a suspension of the rules 7 and invite each one of the members of the Commission, 8 Ramona, Perry and Ramoncita to pause for a moment in 9 recess and go out and unveil the marker in the hall which 10 dedicates our new Texas Parks and Wildlife facility as 11 the Lee Bass Conference Room. Please. 12 (Applause and dedication of new 13 conference room.) 14 CHAIRMAN BASS: Can we have a quorum, 15 please? They don't want to mess up my last meeting. All 16 right. I think we have a quorum, so we will get going. 17 Get down to business here. 18 The first order of business would be the 19 approval of the agenda which we have before us. Do we 20 have a motion? 21 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second. 23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and second, all in 24 favor. 25 ("Aye"). ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 30 1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion carries. Thank 2 you. 3 AGENDA ITEM NO. 1: CONSENT AGENDA 4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Action Item 1, the Consent 5 Agenda, we do not have a consent agenda today, so the 6 Chair will not hear that. And which brings us to the 7 2001-2002 Migratory Bird Proclamation. Vernon Bevill, 8 please. 9 AGENDA ITEM NO. 2: 2001-2002 MIGRATORY GAME BIRD 10 PROCLAMATION 11 MR. BEVILL: Mr. Chairman, members of the 12 Commission, my name is Vernon Bevill. I'm the program 13 director for the game bird program. Today is the 14 beginning of the season setting process for migratory 15 game birds for 2001-2002. 16 Every year we have a little calendar shift 17 to deal with. This year we are bringing before you a 18 proposed change in the morning dove season regulations 19 and then we will be proposing adjustments to other 20 seasons as well. 21 For Teal we anticipate the Fish and 22 Wildlife Service will grant another 16-day season. We 23 try to set that season to begin as late as possible 24 because of the Teal migration to Texas favors a later 25 start date this year. We recommend opening the Saturday ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 31 1 the 15th of September and running to the 30th of 2 September. For Rail and Gallinules and Woodcock and 3 those specifies, we try to establish those seasons to 4 configure around the basic waterfowl seasons to the 5 greatest extent that we can so that opportunity 6 exists when -- when migratory bird hunters are in the 7 field. 8 The white-winged season along the border, 9 again, we are recommending the first two complete 10 weekends in the month of September as we do each year. 11 For Mourning dove we proposed a change to 12 be considered going back to the 12-bird bag limit and a 13 70-day season and that would be a change from the 15-bird 14 bag and 60-day season that was adopted back in 1994. In 15 a survey that we recently conducted and had 3,000 -- 16 about 3,000 responses from various dove hunters across 17 the State, one of the things we tried to look at was -- 18 was whether or not we were providing season opportunity 19 in general that was satisfactory to dove hunters. And as 20 you can see from this slide, dove hunters in general are 21 very satisfied with the -- with the overall hunting 22 opportunity for this species. 23 When we looked at the issue of setting a 24 12-bird bag by the various zones, we received a 25 considerable amount of comment from the survey. You ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 32 1 would note that in the Central and South zones there was 2 a significant difference between the favorability of the 3 12-bird bag over the 15-bird bag. This is actually a 4 reversal in the Central zone of a survey of several years 5 ago. In the North zone where the 15-bird bag has been 6 very popular over the years, frankly I was a little 7 surprised that it was almost a 50/50 split between -- 8 between the two options in the survey. We received far 9 more public comment from e-mails and letters and 10 telephone calls and that sort of comment this year on the 11 dove season proposal than we received in any other time. 12 Almost 500 total comments. As you can see, again, 13 there's a favorability and that comment in the Central 14 and South zones where the comments were directed zonally 15 to a 12-bird bag, 70-day season; however, in the North 16 zone there is a significant percentage of people who 17 favored the 15-bird bag remaining in their 60-day 18 season. 19 In the -- another segment of the survey we 20 tried to look at where we might put the extra ten days if 21 the Commission chooses to go back to the 12-bird, 70-day 22 option. Surprisingly respondents from the North zone 23 indicated a favorability for a late season. They have 24 never had a late season segment, to my knowledge, in the 25 North zone, it's always been a straight through season. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 33 1 So we were a little confused, if you -- if you will, by 2 that response rate, but I wanted to bring that before 3 you. 4 In the Central zone when we went to the 5 15-bird bag and shortened the season we took the ten days 6 in that Central zone from the end of the first season 7 segment. And -- and as you can see in this slide, the 8 preponderance of comment and a significant difference in 9 the -- in the response rate of favored putting those days 10 back in the -- in the first segment. But you can also 11 see that there was -- when you combined the -- the two 12 questions about the late season segment it amounts to a 13 little over 50 percent of the total response. And again, 14 in the South zone there was significant comment on the -- 15 where to put the days and with the preponderance of that 16 comment coming at the end of the second split. 17 So the potential season that we -- we put 18 together on this slide before you would be leaving the 19 North zone with a 15-bird bag and a 60-day continuous 20 season and the Central zone adding the ten days back to 21 the end of the first season segment. And in the South 22 zone adding the ten days to the end of the second season 23 segment. But those are just potential configurations of 24 the use of those ten days. 25 And then the staff recommendation with ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 34 1 changes is before you here. Mr. Chairman, I would be 2 glad to entertain any questions from the Commission. 3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Are there any questions of 4 Mr. Bevill prior to public comment? 5 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Mr. Chairman, I 6 wonder if you might explain the survey. Who was -- to 7 whom those 15,000 were sent, how those were selected. 8 MR. BEVILL: We selected -- because we 9 had -- now have the HIP survey in place, we -- we 10 directed that survey at dove hunters across the State and 11 it was a randomized sample. And we ran a large sample 12 knowing we would -- in a -- in a one mailing deal we 13 would probably get a fairly low response rate, but we 14 wanted that response rate to be high enough to give us 15 significant statistical values. So that's the way we 16 pursued it and it did give us a significant percent. 17 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: That's a pretty high 18 response rate for that type of survey. 19 MR. BEVILL: Yes. 20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any other questions? 21 The chair would entertain public comment. 22 Walt Lewis, if you would come forward and Ellis 23 Gilleland, if you would be prepared to speak next. 24 MR. LEWIS: Howdy and good morning. My 25 name is Walt Lewis. I'm from Bosque County. I live five ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 35 1 miles west of Clifton, Texas. I represent the Clifton 2 Shooting Club and many other avid dove hunters from 3 Bosque County. We are in the Central dove hunting zone. 4 I'm here to speak in favor of the proposed change 5 reducing the bag limit of doves to 12 and adding days 6 back to late October. 7 In the early '90s your surveys indicated 8 that 80 percent of dove hunters only hunt the first two 9 weekends. That was one of the considerations, I believe, 10 in increasing the bag limit to 15 and taking off the 11 latter part of October. Many of us believed and voiced 12 three things. A, these two-weekend-a-year hunters would 13 have to be in a heck of a lot of doves to get 15; B, they 14 would have to be darn good shots and then meanwhile back 15 at the ranch those of us whose passion is dove hunting 16 were losing two of the best weeks of the season. That's 17 been borne out by more current surveys and statistics, 18 and I believe those statistics indicate that only 3 19 percent of the dove hunters have acquired a bag limit of 20 15 since it was installed. 21 Ladies and gentlemen, please return to us 22 those late days of October cool crisp when those big 23 purple-footed doves from North Texas, Oklahoma, and 24 Kansas are coming down, that's the heart of the season. 25 Please give it back to us. Thank you very much. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 36 1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Lewis. I 2 thank your clear and concise comments. 3 Mr. Gilleland and if David Langford be 4 prepared to speak next. 5 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis 6 Gilleland. I'm a private citizen. I'm speaking for 7 Texas Animals which is an Internet organization devoted 8 to animal rights, animal welfare. I have given you a 9 handout. It is a newspaper clipping from the Houston 10 Chronicle dated the 9th of May and it deals with the 11 accidents, the hunting accidents that occurred in the 12 last year, 2000. 13 You will notice I've marked in yellow at 14 the upper left that seven people were killed hunting last 15 year in Texas. You'll notice the yellow mark section in 16 the lower right where it says that 29 percent of the 17 seven people that were killed were killed dove hunting. 18 If you take 29 percent, which is about one-third of 19 seven -- correct me Mr. Montgomery if I'm wrong -- the 20 numbers come out to be two approximately. So my plea to 21 you is to simply cancel dove hunting and save the two 22 lives of two people that would be killed this year dove 23 hunting. 24 Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. It might cost ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 37 1 nine lives up here. 2 Mr. Langford. 3 MR. LANGFORD: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, 4 members of the Commission. I'm David Langford Texas 5 Wildlife Association. The comments that have been made 6 to me for the last -- or just about every time that -- 7 that this department has considered this have been 8 virtually unanimous that pretty much support the staff 9 recommendation that -- and exactly along the geographic 10 lines with the proposed in the North and the Central and 11 the South. 12 However, yesterday some of the comments 13 about the late season opening before on the Saturday 14 before Christmas, that -- that also seems okay, but -- 15 and mainly because of our -- for both of those 70/12 and 16 the -- the Saturday before Christmas would be biased 17 because of our involvement with the Texas Youth Hunting 18 Program with the department. It gives us more 19 opportunities to take kids to -- to experience the 20 heritage of hunting. And a lot of people, some of the 21 comments are always about not -- not having doves that 22 late in the season. Well, listen, the kids involved in 23 the Texas Youth Hunting Program they're not interested 24 in -- in -- in a bag limit and just the opportunity to 25 involve them in the outdoors is what we're looking for ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 38 1 and the extra ten days certainly would help that. 2 If the Sergeant at Arms will -- will not 3 throw me out I want to again appreciate how much Texas 4 Wildlife Association has appreciated your service, 5 Chairman Bass. And the comments by Commissioner 6 Fitzsimons were exactly on target. This is a different 7 agency than it was ten years ago as evidenced by the 8 event last night. This -- this department and the 9 regulated community have agreed that there's a way to 10 work together to work on all these natural resource 11 related problems and we appreciate your leadership into 12 that -- into that situation. That's terrific. It was a 13 great event last night. I would recommend for the record 14 for the new chairman to not hold the next one in enemy 15 territory. Thank you. 16 CHAIRMAN BASS: I believe that's -- that 17 is all of the public comments on this item. Any 18 questions for Mr. Bevill or discussion at the 19 Commission? 20 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: You need a motion? 21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Certainly. 22 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: If there's no further 23 discussion, I move that for the Central and South zones, 24 a 70-day 12-bird bag season with the addition of ten days 25 to the winter season to open on the Saturday preceding ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 39 1 Christmas Day of each year. For the North zone, maintain 2 the 60-day 15-bird bag limit and hope -- and hold scoping 3 sessions next fall in the North zone to gauge interest in 4 instituting a winter season there. 5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion. Discussion? 6 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Did that -- were you 7 including the Central zone in the ten days? 8 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Yes. The South and 9 Central zones. 10 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Before the 11 Christmas, -- the opening before Christmas in the Central 12 zone also? 13 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Yes. Have them the 14 same. 15 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: I don't 16 understand. Is the Central zone the first part or the 17 second part of the season? 18 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Second part. 19 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Since the Central 20 zone has a shorter season, only being ten days at that 21 time, I'm not sure but leaving it where it is would be 22 better because the later part of it, I think, is -- is 23 better from the standpoint of availability of the birds. 24 And from the youth standpoint, I think people who go home 25 for Christmas holidays are going to be able to take part, ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 40 1 you know, all the way through the January 6th closing 2 anyway. 3 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Do I hear that you 4 want to change the Central zone to leaving it the 26th 5 and adding ten days in the Central zone? 6 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: No. No. Leave it 7 -- yes, the South zone as you stated and the Central 8 zone to be December 26th through January 6th for the 9 second season. 10 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: The ten days to 11 the first portion? 12 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Yes, and add the ten 13 days to the first portion. 14 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: That's what I said, I 15 believe. There's some confusion here. 16 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: That's what I just 17 want to clarify. 18 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Let me reread my 19 motion here. Central and South zones, 70-day, 12-bird 20 bag season adding ten days to the winter season to open 21 on the Saturday preceding Christmas Day of each year. 22 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: But the only ten 23 days we've got to add would be in the South zone. 24 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: And the Central 25 zone. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 41 1 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Well, but the 2 Central zone the ten days are added to the first part of 3 the season, not the second part. 4 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Hum. Well, then, I 5 -- 6 CHAIRMAN BASS: I believe -- 7 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: So there's only -- 8 there's only ten days for winter season in the Central 9 zone and I'm suggesting -- 10 CHAIRMAN BASS: I believe her motion is to 11 add them to the second split rather than the first. 12 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Even in the Central 13 zone? 14 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: That was my 15 understanding. 16 CHAIRMAN BASS: I believe that's her 17 motion. 18 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Okay. In that case, 19 do we have a second, Mr. Chairman? 20 CHAIRMAN BASS: If -- 21 COMMISSIONER AVILA: If we're in the right 22 season it was amended. 23 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Well, I was going to 24 amend it if we've got a second. 25 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Vernon, do you ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 42 1 understand what I just said? Have I got the motion 2 right? 3 MR. BEVILL: I understand that you would 4 be putting the ten days to the last -- to the second 5 season segment in both the Central -- 6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Both Central. 7 MR. BEVILL: -- and South zone. 8 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Correct. 9 MR. BEVILL: That's my understanding. 10 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Correct. And leaving 11 the North zone as is. 12 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: As an advocate for 13 the Central zone, let me say that everybody that I have 14 talked to practically -- personally in the Central zone 15 wants the ten days additional to be October not -- not in 16 January. 17 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: I've got a lot 18 of comments too. 19 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: For the Central 20 zone. 21 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I thought this was -- 22 well -- 23 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Which is the way -- 24 the way the staff recommended it and the exception that 25 you were making, I thought was just to open the South ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 43 1 zone the Saturday before Christmas where you've got the 2 extra ten days in the winter season. 3 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Well -- 4 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: And that would be 5 the only change from the recommendation. 6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Is that an alternative 7 motion? 8 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Well, I make that as 9 an alternative motion with the staff recommendation 10 modified only -- only in the sense that the South zone 11 late season would open the Saturday before Christmas. 12 CHAIRMAN BASS: For clarity then -- 13 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: The North zone would 14 be 15. 15 CHAIRMAN BASS: The North zone is 16 -- 16 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: The Central zone 17 would be 12 and 70 with September 1st through October 18 28th and December 26th through January 6th. The South 19 zone would be whatever it is. 20 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: The Saturday 21 preceding -- 22 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: The Saturday 23 preceding Christmas for the extra ten days. 24 CHAIRMAN BASS: With the extra ten days in 25 the second season? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 44 1 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: The late season. 2 CHAIRMAN BASS: All right. 3 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Do I withdraw my 4 motion or do I make a new motion? 5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Well, I guess you have to 6 withdraw before you -- 7 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I withdraw the 8 motion. 9 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: You can accept 10 it if you want. 11 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Now, Ernie, you can 12 make a new motion. Get it right. 13 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I have already made 14 it Mr. Chairman or do I need to do it again? 15 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I think you should 16 make it again for clarity sake. 17 CHAIRMAN BASS: For clarity. 18 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Okay. Well, I 19 would -- I would move adoption of the staff 20 recommendation for the dove seasons with the only 21 modification being that the South zone season would 22 open -- the second season in South would open the 23 Saturday before Christmas. 24 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I'll second that. 25 CHAIRMAN BASS: The Chair has a motion and ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 45 1 a second. Any further discussion? 2 All in favor. 3 ("Aye"). 4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? Hearing 5 none, the motion carries. 6 MR. BEVILL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 7 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts 8 amendments to 31 TAC Sections 65.315 and 65.319, 9 concerning the Migratory Game Bird Proclamation, with 10 changes to the proposed text (Located at Exhibit A) as 11 published in the April 27, 2001, issue of the Texas 12 Register (26 TexReg 3141)." 13 Modification of Motion: 14 Adoption of staff recommendation for the dove seasons 15 with the only modification being that the South zone 16 season would open - the second season in the South would 17 open the Saturday before Christmas. 18 AGENDA ITEM NO. 3: ACTION - DEER MANAGEMENT 19 CHAIRMAN BASS: Item 3. Which is deer 20 management. Jerry Cooke. Item 3. Thank you. 21 DR. COOKE: Mr. Chairman and members, my 22 name is Jerry Cooke, Game Branch Chief in the Wildlife 23 Division. I'll be presenting to you some proposed 24 changes to various deer permit proclamations. This will 25 be a brief version of what we discussed yesterday. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 46 1 Basically this proposed change revolve around issues that 2 were identified by HB-2710 that was filed in the last 3 Legislative session. The primary issues within that bill 4 was to allow scientific breeders to temporarily transfer 5 buck deer from their facilities to a DMP or deer 6 management permit breeding facility to increase the 7 flexibility for Triple T transfers of deer for genetic 8 purposes, to increase the number of personnel who could 9 approve Triple T applications, and provide a formal 10 appeals process for Triple T proclamations. 11 The issues within the issues basically 12 were this: I was directed to accommodate as many of the 13 issues included in that bill into the Texas 14 Administrative Code for proposals, that the -- that we 15 should maintain the program's ideals of incentive based 16 and habitat focus, that the responsibility for approval 17 or disapproval of all permits would remain with 18 department personnel, and that deer -- that deer may not 19 be trapped from a breeding facility in a DMP permitted 20 property with a Triple T permit, and that the rules 21 wherever possible would remain fence type neutral. 22 The only -- the main issue within the bill 23 that could not be accommodated in Texas Administrative 24 Code is creating a new permit. Only the legislature can 25 do that. But we can create a -- we can create a multiple ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 47 1 permit application process; in other words, one 2 application for several permits and we can accommodate 3 that just simply by the way we do the forms. The 4 proposed issues would have to be address in the three 5 proclamations; one dealing with Triple T of game animals, 6 one of the deer management permit, and then changes 7 within the scientific breeder permit proclamations. 8 Many of the resource concerns related to 9 these issues could be accommodated if they were linked 10 into existing permit programs or existing approval 11 processes on properties. For example, if a property had 12 been renewed therefore approved and renewed into a Level 13 3 MLD permit and they had an established management plan 14 in place and the request was to remove doe deer from the 15 property using trapping and that was number was not more 16 than what had already been approved to be removed during 17 the hunting season with permits, no further inspection 18 would really be required because this was already 19 accommodated within the management plan. If the releases 20 on the property would not raise the population size above 21 the target population size in the management plan, again, 22 that would not be a resource issue and no further 23 inspection would be required. And if the population was 24 to be reduced to accommodate a release, then so long as 25 that reduction was less than half of the fawn crop, below ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 48 1 the target population size, then we wouldn't be dealing 2 with a depletion issue. This would be one way to address 3 the resource issues related to this requested -- the 4 request from the bill. 5 Also, currently our Triple T applications 6 are inspected and reviewed and approved or disapproved by 7 eight people in our division which are the district 8 leaders in Texas. And we would recommend, propose to 9 change that from only these individuals to our senior 10 biologist and our senior technicians, people who have 11 extensive experience in the field. This would be the NRS 12 IIIs and IVs and our Fish and Wildlife Technicians IIIs 13 and IVs. 14 To provide a formal appeals process, 15 basically the process would be this: If an individual 16 were denied a permit he could immediately apply -- could 17 immediately appeal it to the immediate supervisor of the 18 individual who denied the permit. If -- if the landowner 19 didn't feel -- or the applicant didn't feel he had been 20 accommodated appropriately, he could appeal it to a panel 21 and that panel would be made up of the district leader, 22 regional director responsible for the area. The 23 white-tailed deer statewide coordinator, me, and the 24 divisional director. The divisional director would be an 25 amendment to what was published in the Register. And we ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 49 1 would be reviewing that application from the standpoint 2 of had the rules that you provided us been applied in an 3 appropriate way as they are applied statewide. 4 If it is determined that a rule needed to 5 be changed it would be handled exactly the way we handle 6 all of our rule changes and that is discuss it with our 7 advisory committees and other interested parties and then 8 make a formal proposal to you-all. This application -- I 9 mean this appeal process would be part of our rules if 10 adopted. Within the deer management permit, the rules 11 would have to be changed to allow a buck deer that was 12 introduced from a scientific breeder facility be again 13 trapped and removed separate from the other deer. But 14 that that trapping method needs to be addressing the 15 welfare of the other deer that are in the pen as well. 16 And the scientific breeder proclamation allowing for the 17 temporary transfer to a DMP breeding facility would have 18 to be provided in the rule. 19 There were some additional recommended 20 changes to the scientific breeder proclamation which were 21 really separate -- apart from the issues of 2710. One is 22 the definition an authorized agent providing a simple 23 method of changing who your authorized agent is. To 24 allow photocopies of permits and invoices to be included 25 in the annual report. To change the requirement, the ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 50 1 current requirement of all deer having to be ear tagged 2 by March 1 to March 31. Also, one change that was not in 3 the publication but -- but certainly we believe needs to 4 be addressed. Currently if a deer is to be moved ten 5 days prior to a season or during a hunting season, the 6 scientific breeder has to notify the department before 7 that move takes place. There are people other than 8 scientific breeder permit holders who move deer under 9 this program and the wording needs to be changed to 10 include all of those people in that notification 11 process. 12 One of the public comments that came 13 forward during the hearings and in other discussions was 14 that currently deer temporarily held in a DMP facility, 15 deer management permit breeding facility, can't be 16 released before March 1 which means that they're subject 17 to a Triple T permit during that 31 days to the end of 18 the trapping season. And that we think that it would be 19 more appropriate if instead of being held until March 1 20 that they would be held until April 1 to be sure that 21 those individuals held there and bred there stayed there 22 on the property which was the intent of the permit 23 program from the beginning. 24 If you have any other questions? I have 25 the recommended motion should you choose to adopt these ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 51 1 regulations. Do you have any questions? 2 CHAIRMAN BASS: To be clear, the change to 3 the April date is part of the staff recommendation -- 4 DR. COOKE: Yes. 5 CHAIRMAN BASS: -- on the release? 6 DR. COOKE: Yes. That is -- but -- but 7 again that can't be adopted here in this action because 8 that section is not open. 9 CHAIRMAN BASS: So come back and do that 10 later. 11 DR. COOKE: Come back in August to adopt 12 it should you choose to do so. 13 CHAIRMAN BASS: Are there any questions 14 prior to public comment? We do have some people who wish 15 to speak on this. 16 John Henderson, if you would come forward 17 and Jerry Johnston if you would be prepared to speak 18 after Mr. Henderson. 19 MR. HENDERSON: Good morning, Chairman 20 Bass and other Commissioners. I'm John Henderson, 21 rancher retired Ag science teacher from Meridian, Bosque 22 County, Texas. I'd like to support the scientific 23 breeder proclamation, the deer management proclamation 24 and the Triple T proclamations. Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Henderson. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 52 1 Jerry Johnston. And J.N. Grimes if you would be prepared 2 to speak next. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Good morning, 4 Commissioners, Chairman Bass. I'm Jerry Johnston 5 representing Texas Deer Association. Our president was 6 called back to Corpus on an emergency, so he's not going 7 be able to be here this morning so I've got 275 people 8 that are in support of the proclamations. Just give them 9 to her? 10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Please. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: There might be one thing 12 that should where considered in regards to the April 1st 13 could be a solution that might be looked into and that 14 would be that anybody holding a DMP permit, if they were 15 in possession of a Triple T, the last date that Triple T 16 could be used would be prior to the release date of their 17 deer. Would be something to look into. But just give 18 these to -- 19 CHAIRMAN BASS: Yes, if you would give 20 them to Ms. Estrada, please, that would be appropriate. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Real quickly, though, I've 22 been messing around this deer business for 25 years and 23 during that time there's been a lot of different sets of 24 Commissioners up here and I think our group's going to 25 miss you. Thank you. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 53 1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. 2 J.N. Grimes, and David Langford if you 3 would be prepared to speak next. 4 MR. GRIMES: Good morning, Commissioner 5 Bass. I thank you-all for allowing me to speak. I'm 6 from -- J.N. Grimes from Jacksonville, Texas. I'm a 7 Dairy Queen operator. I'm a deer raiser. Have -- and a 8 rancher and I'm supporting the rules changes and as 9 recommended. 10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank your, sir. David 11 Langford, and Ellis Gilleland if you would be prepared to 12 speak after Mr. Langford. 13 MR. LANGFORD: Thank you again, 14 Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission. I'm David 15 Langford, Texas Wildlife Association. And we approve the 16 motion as presented and would ask that the motion also 17 include going forward with the April 1st date or the 18 other solution that Jerry Johnston presented so that 19 everything gets tied up. These -- all the loose ends are 20 tied up by the August Commission meeting which is for the 21 next trapping season. So whatever the legalities and -- 22 and proper procedure is to approve that motion and to 23 include going forward in the Register with the April 1st 24 date or the suggestion of Jerry Johnston so that we can 25 address that at the August meeting. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 54 1 Thank you very much. 2 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, 3 Mr. Langford. 4 Mr. Gilleland, please. 5 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis 6 Gilleland. I'm a private citizen. I'm representing 7 Texas Animals which is an Internet organization promoting 8 animal rights and animal welfare. I would like to first 9 of all protest that three minutes is not sufficient to 10 address three rules. We should be getting three minutes 11 each. 12 The first comment I would like to make 13 pertains to the trapping and transport portion of this. 14 I would like to see as a citizen some mention in the 15 rules about your statutory authority for giving away 16 white-tail deer to Mexico. You're transporting thousands 17 of deer to hunting ranches in Northern Mexico with no 18 statutory authority. I would like to see that in a rule, 19 your basis. The second thing I would like to see in the 20 rule is what money you're receiving from Mexico or what 21 renumeration for these deer. 22 The second aspect of this I would like to 23 address is the portion that deals with the tagging and 24 unique numbers. If you turn to 65.601 -- this is on 25 scientific breeding portion. If you turn to 65.601 you ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 55 1 see subparagraph 10 it says, "If the permittee chooses to 2 assign unique numbers, each deer must be tattooed," 3 et cetera. But yet when you turn to 65.607, marking of 4 deer subparagraph B it says that is no ifs, ands, or buts 5 optional. It says, "They will be permanently tattooed in 6 one or both ears with a unique number." So you've got at 7 mismatch there. Do you want -- is it mandatory or not or 8 is it optional or not. The second item you have is a 9 mismatch 65.609 where the concept is deer being put into 10 captivity pens for breeding and nursing. That thread 11 runs all the way through this can of worms. Yet you say 12 if they are not hunted prior to liberation, they being 13 the deer, you say if the deer are not hunted. Well, 14 again there's no option for hunting because the deer are 15 in the pens. Why do you want to hunt nursing and 16 breeding deer? Isn't that counterproductive? I think 17 all of you are intelligent enough to understand that. If 18 you kill an animal that's breeding or nursing, doesn't 19 that negate the effect of putting them in the pen? So 20 please eliminate where it says optional. Put in, "and 21 they shall not be hunted prior to liberation." 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Gilleland. 24 Dr. Cooke, do you have any comments? 25 DR. COOKE: Do you have any specific ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 56 1 question about comments that were made? I'd be happy to 2 address those. 3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any specific questions. 4 Any -- would you respond to Mr. Gilleland's question, if 5 you would, please. 6 DR. COOKE: Related to moving deer to 7 Mexico, as far as the State of Texas is concerned, this 8 is no different than assisting any other agency in 9 restoration efforts. For instance, we supply Rio Grande 10 turkeys to the State of Nevada. They have a huntable 11 turkey population in Nevada because of Rio Grande turkeys 12 from Texas. Big-horned sheep are moved from state to 13 state and under the same authority we move white-tail 14 deer to the regulating entity in Mexico which is the -- 15 which is the -- our -- in the U.S. the Fish and Wildlife 16 Service is what they are but their states have no 17 authority over wildlife. So basically our agreement is 18 between the State of Texas and the federalies in Mexico. 19 And the sites where they are moved to are those sites put 20 forward by Mexico as restoration sites. There are no 21 monies changing hands here. 22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. 23 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Mr. Chairman. 24 CHAIRMAN BASS: Yes, please. 25 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Dr. Cooke, what about ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 57 1 the conflicts in the regulations that were previously 2 mentioned by Mr. Gilleland? Did you follow those? 3 DR. COOKE: I followed them but I didn't 4 see them as conflicts. Basically there's an 5 alternative -- there's alternative methods of -- of using 6 unique numbers to mark deer from a breeding -- from a 7 scientific breeder pen. It can be numbers supplied by 8 us, it can could be numbers that they come up with 9 themselves that are in fact unique, which is that say 10 includes their breeder number that's part of their 11 permit. They are not required to tattoo any deer that is 12 not removed from their facility. So basically the only 13 conditional is if you take them out of a facility you 14 will have an unique number tattooed into their ear. But 15 if they don't leave the facility, they're not required to 16 have a unique number attached to their ear. The main 17 purpose of that is to follow animals as they move between 18 facilities. When an animal is going down the road, our 19 law enforcement people need to know where they come from 20 and the background on them. That's the issue. 21 As we discussed or maybe I didn't discuss 22 earlier, the primary issue in dealing with the scientific 23 breeder proclamation is a very simple one. There's a 24 fence and on this side of the fence are deer that they 25 purchased and are part of their program, and on this side ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 58 1 of the fence are deer that belong to the people of the 2 State of Texas. And the rules are designed to see that 3 the two don't meet. And that law enforcement can tease 4 apart the difference. 5 Did that answer your question, sir? Thank 6 you. 7 CHAIRMAN BASS: Are there other 8 questions? The chair would entertain a motion. 9 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Mr. Chairman, prior 10 to the motion I wanted to address the proposal and 11 recognize the hard work of the staff, which I do 12 appreciate. We discussed the issue of the managed deer 13 permits several years ago, and at that point in time I 14 expressed my grave concern about that particular 15 program. And when I came to the meeting yesterday it was 16 the thought that, well, this is, you know, another small 17 step and it will perhaps make things clearer or easier. 18 But in hearing the discussion yesterday and looking back 19 at the proposal and talking last night with several 20 members of the public -- Private Lands Advisory Committee 21 and in thinking about the concerns that I had expressed 22 before, I've come to this proposal today with a vote 23 against it. And again, it's because of the provision for 24 the managed deer permits. I think that the -- the wild 25 animals belong to all Texans. The deer are wild animals, ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 59 1 and I think that anytime that we do something with the 2 deer, the managed deer permits, that we're moving down 3 the road to privatization. And I so I wanted to express 4 that before we move forward with this proposal. Before I 5 did not register a vote at all. And today I will vote 6 against it and for those reasons if the proposal is 7 moved. 8 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Any further 9 discussion? The chair would entertain a motion. 10 COMMISSIONER AVILA: So moved. 11 CHAIRMAN BASS: The chair has had motion 12 to accept staff's proposal. 13 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second. 14 CHAIRMAN BASS: And a second. All in 15 favor. 16 ("Aye"). 17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Opposed. 18 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Nay. 19 CHAIRMAN BASS: The motion carries. Thank 20 you. 21 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts 22 amendments to 31 TAC Chapter 65, Subchapter E, L, and R 23 (located at Exhibit A), concerning the Scientific Breeder 24 Proclamation, the Triple T Proclamation, and the Deer 25 Management Proclamation, with changes to the proposed ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 60 1 text as published in the April 27, 2001, issue of the 2 Texas Register (26 TexReg, 3137-3145.)" 3 AGENDA ITEM NO. 4: ACTION - AQUACULTURE MOU 4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Aquaculture MOU, Raenell 5 Silcox, please, or actually Dr. McKinney. 6 DR. McKINNEY: Mr. Chairman, Andy is 7 correct it's difficult to say that for the last time 8 today. I'm filling in for Raenell -- 9 CHAIRMAN BASS: You can still call me 10 that. 11 DR. McKINNEY: Yes, sir, I will certainly 12 do that. Raenell had a family emergency and had to 13 leave, so I'm going to fill in for her but hopefully we 14 can move through this quickly. Hold this down again. 15 This an item which we briefed you on yesterday in 16 hearing. Basically as was noted yesterday in the 17 workshop, this is a chronology of events that led up to 18 the original MOU, so I won't repeat that. 19 What we're bringing before you today is a 20 revised MOU to incorporate the requirements of the last 21 Legislative session to -- to bring into play the 22 Department of Agriculture along with some other changes 23 required by that Legislation. They are summarized on 24 this slide for you as well. We received no public 25 comment and so pending other discussion or questions from ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 61 1 the Commission, staff would recommend the adoption of the 2 motion that is -- you see before you on your screen. So, 3 Mr. Chairman, I'm ready for any questions that you may 4 have. 5 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have no public comment, 6 the Chair would entertain discussion or questions. 7 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: Just one 8 comment. In the briefing you-all gave us raised the 9 issue of the fixed time periods in which to respond for 10 permitting and I understand how it's handled. I'm 11 certainly going to vote for it. I would like to ask any 12 members of the industry or our own staff as we go forward 13 with this and other regulatory matters, permitting 14 procedures, that we really watch our deadlines and make 15 sure we respond promptly. I think frequently regulated 16 business' biggest problem with permitting is the time it 17 takes rather than the compliance itself. So I commend 18 our team for putting deadlines in there, I would just 19 like to keep an eye on that as we go forward in case we 20 need to modify that procedure to put a drop dead on us so 21 we don't hold people up unduly. 22 DR. McKINNEY: Duly noted and certainly 23 supported, yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Mr. Bass, I would 25 move approval. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 62 1 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second. 2 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have a motion and a 3 second. All in favor? 4 ("Aye"). 5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? The motion 6 carries. Thank you. 7 DR. McKINNEY: Thank you, sir. 8 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts amended 9 31 TAC Section 57.135 (located at Exhibit A) as published 10 in the April 27, 2001 issue of the Texas Register (26 11 TexReg 3136), adopting by reference the Memorandum of 12 Understanding Between the Texas Natural Resource 13 Conservation Commission, the Texas Parks and Wildlife 14 Department and the Texas Department of Agriculture 15 (located at Exhibit B)." 16 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have a briefing on 17 Covert and Environmental Operations. 18 AGENDA ITEM NO. 5: BRIEFING - COVERT AND ENVIRONMENTAL 19 OPERATIONS 20 (Whereupon, a briefing item was 21 presented to the Commissioners, after 22 which, the following proceedings were 23 had:) 24 CHAIRMAN BASS: Go ahead. 25 AGENDA ITEM NO. 6: ACTION - STAMP FEE FOR DISABLED ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 63 1 VETERANS 2 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: We will turn next to 3 Item No. 6 on the agenda which is an action item. And it 4 is Stamp Fee for Disabled Veterans. And Frances Stiles. 5 Welcome. 6 MS. STILES: Good morning. 7 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Good morning. 8 MS. STILES: My name is Frances Stiles. 9 I'm with the Administrative Resources Division. I'm here 10 to present a proposal to you for the Disabled Veterans 11 hunting and fishing license to add hunting and fishing 12 stamps to the existing license. Currently the agency 13 offers a Disabled Veteran's license that consists of a 14 hunting and fishing license to those who qualify under 15 the Veteran's Administration definition for disabled. 16 What the proposal adds is the five hunting stamps and the 17 two fishing stamps to this license keeping the cost at no 18 fee to disabled Veterans. This -- this item has been 19 published in the Texas Register in order to implement 20 this for the next year's license season. And we have 21 received no comments on that. This would impact the 22 Texas Administrative Code and -- and Section 5390 to the 23 Code. 24 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you, 25 Ms. Stiles. Do members of the Commission have any ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 64 1 questions? 2 We will take public comments then. 3 Mr. Gilleland, please. 4 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis 5 Gilleland. I'm speaking for Texas Animals which is an 6 Internet organization animal rights, animal welfare 7 organization on the Internet. In regard to this program 8 for disabled Veterans, it's such a great program I think 9 you ought to extend it to the -- extend the scope to all 10 Veterans. Why limit it just to the disabled Veterans? I 11 would make two minor modifications in that 12 recommendation. Number one is that you double the stamp 13 fee instead of eliminating it. And, number two, require 14 that all these people go to a psychiatrist and take a 15 psychological examination and receive psychological 16 counseling because they did not get enough killing in 17 Vietnam. They're obviously sick. Thank you. 18 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Ms. Stiles? Any 19 comments or questions by any members of the Commission? 20 Hearing none, the Chair would entertain a motion on this 21 item. 22 COMMISSIONER WATSON: I so move. 23 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second. 24 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: It's been moved by 25 Commissioner Watson and seconded by Commissioner Henry ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 65 1 that this agenda item be approved. Any further 2 discussion? All in favor say "aye." 3 ("Aye"). 4 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Those opposed, nay. 5 The motion carries. Thank you, Ms. Stiles. 6 MS. STILES: Thank you. 7 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts the 8 proposed Rule, Title 31, Texas Administrative Code, 9 Chapter 53 (Finance), section 53.90 as published in the 10 April 27, 2001 Texas Register with an effective date of 11 August 15, 2001." 12 AGENDA ITEM NO. 7: ACTION - FLEET POLICY 13 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: The next agenda item 14 is the No. 7, the fleet policy. Mr. Cook. 15 MR. COOK: Good morning. Commissioners, 16 my name is Robert L. Cook, Chief Operating Officer. This 17 rule is required for compliance with House Bill 3125 from 18 the 76th Legislature which created the statewide fleet 19 management plan. House Bill 3125 placed a statewide 20 moratorium on the purchase of new vehicles. The counsel 21 on competitive government established a provision within 22 the statewide fleet management plan that the moratorium 23 would not be lifted for an agency until it adopted the 24 statewide fleet management plan. In order for an agency 25 to adopt the plan it must have the General Services ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 66 1 Commission office of fleet management approve the 2 agency's fleet management plan and the agency must adopt 3 specified rules. 4 TPWD's fleet management plan has been 5 approved and the moratorium has been lifted because we 6 were able to show that our rules are on the Commission 7 agenda, continued removal of the moratorium is contingent 8 upon rule approval. The rules state as follows: "Each 9 agency vehicle with the exception of a vehicle assigned 10 to a field employee shall be assigned to the agency motor 11 pool and be available for checkout. And the agency may 12 assign a vehicle to an individual administrative or 13 executive employee on a regular basis only if the agency 14 makes a written documented finding that the assignment is 15 critical to the needs and mission of the agency." And 16 there's our motion. Be glad to take any questions. 17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Gilleland, you wish to 18 speak on this item? 19 MR. GILLELAND: Yes, sir, I have some 20 comments. 21 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis 22 Gilleland. I'm a private citizen speaking for Texas 23 Animals which is an animals rights organization on the 24 Internet. The comments I have to do -- have to make are 25 based on observing the use of Parks and Wildlife vehicles ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 67 1 over about a ten-year period. First of all, I think this 2 is rule is fraudulent. This is 51.152 because number A 3 in Paragraph A you establish a rule to limit the use, 4 private use of vehicles. Yes a lawyer would smile and 5 then under B you write in a loophole. And the loophole 6 negates what you wrote under A. This is so crudely done 7 I doubt that it was done by a licensed lawyer. The rule 8 should read under B, "The agency may not assign to an 9 individual, administrative or the executive employee on a 10 regular basis a parks and wildlife vehicle," period. Yet 11 you go on and you add the loophole, and so my 12 recommendation is to put a period after "basis" and cut 13 out the loophole. 14 Secondly, what is regular? Look in the 15 dictionary for regular and you'll see about twenty 16 different definitions. It means -- and the ambiguous 17 word "regular" on a "regular basis" means absolutely 18 zilch, particularly in court. Please define "regular" to 19 mean full-time, to assign a vehicle full-time or to 20 assign it during nonduty hours to the same person or 21 assign on a weekend basis. I know you will ignore this 22 because it sensible and logical and will save the 23 government money. So I'm asking you to, number two, when 24 you pass this, pull these people's government credit 25 card. Make them put their own money in the gas tank. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 68 1 You want to give them the vehicle, okay, make them put 2 gas in the gas tank. Pull those cotton picking 3 government credit cards and number two stop them from 4 driving especially executive director driving unmarked 5 cars. Put at Texas seal on the door, both doors and the 6 trunk. Paint them white with a green stripe, put neon 7 lights, whatever, so the public will know that these 8 scoundrels are driving public vehicles on the weekends 9 for their own pleasure to home, wherever, spending my 10 money, my tax dollar unethically, perhaps not illegally. 11 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Gilleland, you're 12 getting out of order. Would you please conclude your 13 comments. 14 MR. GILLELAND: Yes, sir. Thank you. 15 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any further discussion? 16 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I move approval of 17 the recommendation. 18 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second. 19 CHAIRMAN BASS: The chair has a motion and 20 a second. Any discussion? All in favor say "aye." 21 ("Aye"). 22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed. The motion 23 carries. Thank you, Mr. Cook. 24 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission authorizes staff 25 to adopt the new rule Section 51.152 regarding the Texas ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 69 1 Parks and Wildlife Vehicle Management Plan." 2 AGENDA ITEM NO. 8: ACTION - NOMINATION FOR OIL AND GAS 3 LEASE - FAYETTE COUNTY 4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Kathy Boydston. 5 Nomination for oil and gas lease. 6 MS. BOYDSTON: Hello, Mr. Chairman, 7 Commissioners, my name is Kathy Boydston, Program Leader 8 for the Wildlife Habitat Assessment Program in the 9 Wildlife Division. The department received a nomination 10 for an oil and gas lease on the tract as Monument 11 Hill/Kreische Brewery State Park in Fayette County. The 12 department owns 100 percent of the mineral interests for 13 the 39.54 acre-tract. Staff recommends the Commission 14 continue its policy requiring a minimum bonus bid of $150 15 per acre, a 25 percent royalty and a $10 per acre delay 16 rental for a three-year term. It is also proposed that 17 the lease be subject to the conditions shown in Exhibit 18 A. And there's the staff recommendation for you to 19 consider. 20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any questions? No public 21 comment, the Chair would entertain a motion. 22 COMMISSIONER WATSON: So moved. 23 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have a motion and a 24 second. All in favor. 25 ("Aye"). ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 70 1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? The motion 2 carries. Thank you, Ms. Boydston. 3 MS. BOYDSTON: Thank you. 4 "The Executive Director is authorized to nominate for oil 5 and gas lease to the Board for Lease for Parks and 6 Wildlife Lands, the Department's mineral interest in the 7 Monument Hill/Kreische Brewery State Parks, at $150 per 8 acre with a 25 percent royalty, $10 per acre rental, and 9 a 3-year term, incorporating the restrictions set out in 10 Exhibit A." 11 AGENDA ITEM NO. 9: ACTION - LOCAL PARK FUNDING 12 CHAIRMAN BASS: Local park funding. Tim 13 Hogsett. 14 MR. HOGSETT: Good morning. 15 Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, I'm Tim Hogsett, 16 Director of the Recreation Grants Program in the State 17 Parks Division. This item is consideration of 18 supplemental funding for applicants to the Federal Urban 19 Parks and Recreation Recovery Program which is a program 20 of the U.S. Department of Interior National Parks 21 Service. U.S. Congress has recently appropriated $28 22 million for fiscal year 2001 to be granted to local 23 governments throughout the country from the Urban Parks 24 Recreation Recovery Program. 25 Texas local governments collectively are ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 71 1 eligible for $4,325,400 in that competition. The program 2 authorizes competitive Federal assistance to urban 3 localities for rehabilitation of critically needed 4 recreation facilities. The fund can only be used for 5 existing facilities and not new facilities. Grants to 6 local governments or are local -- are matching grants 7 with a Federal share being no more than 70 percent of the 8 project. There's also an incentive for states to 9 participate in the match costs and when the states do 10 participate financially, the remaining match may be 11 shared by the states up to 15 percent of the program 12 cost. Federal government then on a dollar-per-dollar 13 basis will match the state contribution thus lessening 14 the local government's required commitment. 15 In previous years the Commission has 16 chosen to make a match commitment of 10 percent from 17 state funds resulting in an increase of the Federal share 18 for projects from 70 to 80 percent and lessening the 19 local commitment from 30 to 10 percent. A 10 percent 20 commitment in the past has been important to ensure that 21 the local governments have an investment in the program. 22 A 10 percent department commitment would be 300 and -- 23 would be $432,540 and any uncommitted funds would revert 24 back to the department. And this is the staff 25 recommendation. Be glad to answer any questions that you ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 72 1 have. 2 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any questions of 3 Mr. Hogsett? There's no public comment on this. The 4 Chair would entertain a motion. 5 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second. 7 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second. Any 8 discussion? All in favor. 9 ("Aye"). 10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed. Hearing 11 none, the motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Hogsett. 12 "Funding in the amount of up to $432,540 is reserved to 13 be used, at the direction of the Executive Director, to 14 match 10% of the cost for UPARR projects approved by the 15 National Park Service for Texas local governments." 16 AGENDA ITEM NO. 10: ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - SAN 17 PATRICIO COUNTY - LAKE CORPUS CHRISTI STATE PARK 18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Land acquisition, Karen 19 Leslie, San Patricio County. 20 MS. LESLIE: Mr. Chairman, thank you for 21 all your many challenges through the years when it comes 22 to land acquisition for Texas Park and Wildlife. 23 Chairman and Commissioners, I'm Karen 24 Leslie. I'm a project manager in land conservation. 25 This item was discussed in the Conservation Committee ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 73 1 Executive Session yesterday. The item summarizes that 2 discussion. The property contains some 50 acres and will 3 be used to accommodate a new wastewater treatment plant 4 at the park. The purchase will protect the natural 5 resources in the parks. We were very concerned about 6 destroying the brush if we had to use the park for the 7 wastewater treatment facilities. 8 Staff recommends the Commission consider 9 the motion to acquire the property as an addition to Lake 10 Corpus Christi State Park. I'd be glad to entertain any 11 questions. 12 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Mr. Chairman, I would 13 like the record to reflect that I have filed a letter 14 with Mr. Sansom recusing myself from consideration of or 15 voting on this item. 16 CHAIRMAN BASS: Let the record so 17 reflect. Any questions. There's no public comment. The 18 Chair would entertain a motion? 19 COMMISSIONER WATSON: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER HENRY: I'd second. 21 CHAIRMAN BASS: The motion and a second. 22 Any discussion? All in favor say "Aye." 23 ("Aye"). 24 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? Hearing 25 none, the motion passes. Thank you, Ms. Leslie. And ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 74 1 would you move onto El Paso County for us. 2 "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps 3 necessary to purchase approximately 50 acres in San 4 Patricio County as an addition to Lake Corpus Christi 5 State park." 6 AGENDA ITEM NO. 11: ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - EL PASO 7 COUNTY - FRANKLIN MOUNTAINS STATE PARK 8 MS. LESLIE: Chairman and Commissioners, 9 this item also reflects a summary of what we discuss in 10 Executive Session yesterday. This property contains 11 approximately 46 acres. It's located on the southeast 12 corner of Franklin Mountains State Park. It will ensure 13 the view shed of the department operated while our area 14 tramway if so approved. 15 Staff recommends the Commission consider 16 the motion to acquire the acreage as an addition to 17 enhance the tramway at Franklin Mountains State Park. 18 Any questions? 19 CHAIRMAN BASS: There's no public 20 comment. Any questions or a motion? 21 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I would move 22 approval, Mr. Chairman. 23 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second. 24 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second. 25 Discussion? All in favor? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 75 1 ("Aye"). 2 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? Hearing 3 none, the motion carries. 4 Thank you, Ms. Leslie. Jack Bauer. 5 "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps 6 necessary to purchase approximately 46.01 acres in El 7 Paso County as an addition to Franklin Mountains State 8 Park." 9 AGENDA ITEM NO. 12: ACTION - LAND EXCHANGE - HOUSTON 10 COUNTY - WECHES CEMETERY ASSOCIATION-TPW 11 MR. BAUER: Chairman Bass and 12 Commissioners, I'm Jack Bauer, Director of the Land 13 Conservation Program. The Texas Legislature has passed 14 House Concurrent Resolution No. 105 directing Parks and 15 Wildlife and the Parks and Wildlife Commission to 16 exchange property at Mission Tejas State Historical Park 17 with the Weches Cemetery Association. The transaction 18 recommended has been fully coordinated the local 19 legislative representative, the Parks and Wildlife staff, 20 the Weches Cemetery Association and the Houston County 21 Commissioner's Court. 22 The Staff recommends the Parks and 23 Wildlife Commission adopt the motion before you to affect 24 the land exchange as directed by the Legislature. I 25 would be happy to answer any questions. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 76 1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Questions? There's no 2 public comment on this item today. The Chair would 3 entertain a motion. 4 COMMISSIONER AVILA: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Second. 6 CHAIRMAN BASS: The motion and a second. 7 Any discussion? All in favor say "Aye." 8 ("Aye"). 9 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? The motion 10 carries. Thank you. 11 MR. BAUER: Thank you. 12 "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps 13 necessary to transfer approximately 1.238-acres of land 14 in exchange for approximately 0.084-acres owned by Weches 15 Cemetery Association in Houston County." 16 AGENDA ITEM NO. 13: ACTION - LAND DISPOSITION - TRAVIS 17 AND WILLIAMSON COUNTIES 18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Ray - Travis and 19 Williamson Counties. 20 MR. RAY: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, 21 I'm Ronnie Ray -- oh, excuse me -- Project Manager for 22 Land Conversation. Texas Parks and Wildlife owns two 23 tracts of property as part of the Lakeline Mall Habitat 24 Conversation plan for mitigation of altered endangered 25 species habitat. These properties are the Testudo Tube ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 77 1 Cave Preserve and the Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve. 2 It would best serve the interest of the 3 Texas Parks and Wildlife to transfer the title and the 4 plan operator responsibilities of these two tracts to 5 parties whose interest would be better served as owners 6 and caretakers of these properties. The City of Austin 7 has expressed interest in the Testudo Tube Preserve and 8 the United States Army Corps. of Engineers has expressed 9 interest in the Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve. 10 Staff recommends the Texas Parks and 11 Wildlife Commission adopt the motion before you to effect 12 the transfer of these properties to the City of Austin 13 and to the U.S. Corps. of Engineers. Any questions? 14 CHAIRMAN BASS: If there are no questions, 15 the Chair would entertain a motion. 16 COMMISSIONER WATSON: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Second. 18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any discussion? All in 19 favor say "Aye." 20 ("Aye"). 21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? The motion 22 carries. Thank you, Mr. Ray. 23 "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps 24 necessary to consummate the transfer of approximately 26 25 acres known as the Testudo Tube Cave Preserve to the City ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 78 1 of Austin, Texas and approximately 106 acres known as the 2 Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve to the United States Army 3 Corps. of Engineers." 4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Sansom, is there any 5 other business to come before this Commission today? 6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: No, sir. 7 CHAIRMAN BASS: Being none, I declare 8 ourselves adjourned. Thank you all very much. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 79 1 STATE OF TEXAS ) COUNTY OF TRAVIS ) 2 3 4 I, KIM SEIBERT, a Certified Court Reporter in 5 and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that the 6 above and foregoing pages constitute a full, true, and 7 correct transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and 8 Wildlife Commission on May 31, 2001, in the Commission 9 hearing room of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters 10 Complex, Austin, Travis County, Texas. I FURTHER CERTIFY 11 that a stenographic record was made by me at the time of 12 the public meeting and said stenographic notes were 13 thereafter reduced to computerized transcription under 14 my supervision and control. WITNESS MY HAND this ____ 15 day of ____________________, 2001. 16 17 18 ___________________________ KIM SEIBERT, Texas CSR 4589 19 Expiration Date: 12/2002 3101 Bee Caves Road 20 Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78701 21 (512) 328-5557 22 23 24 25 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 80 1 ___________________________ 2 LEE M. BASS, CHAIRMAN 3 ___________________________ CAROL E. DINKINS, VICE-CHAIR 4 ___________________________ 5 PHIL MONTGOMERY 6 ___________________________ JOSEPH FITZSIMONS 7 ___________________________ 8 ERNEST ANGELO, JR. 9 ___________________________ JOHN AVILA, JR. 10 ___________________________ 11 ALVIN L. HENRY 12 ___________________________ KATHARINE ARMSTRONG IDSAL 13 ___________________________ 14 MARK E. WATSON, JR. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139