Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Conservation Committee

August 28, 2002

Commission Hearing Room
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
                                                                 1

      6      BE IT REMEMBERED, that heretofore on the 28th day of 

      7   August, 2002, there come to be heard matters under the 

      8   regulatory authority of the Parks and Wildlife 

      9   Commission of Texas, in the Commission Hearing Room of 

     10   the Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, 

     11   Austin, Texas, beginning at 9:00 a.m. to wit:

     12   

     13   APPEARANCES:
          THE TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
     14   
          CONSERVATION COMMITTEE:
     15   
          CHAIRMAN:    Katharine Armstrong, Austin, Texas
     16                Ernest Angelo, Jr., Vice Chairman, Midland, 
                       Texas
     17                John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas
                       Joseph B.C. Fitzsimons, San Antonio, Texas, 
     18                Committee Chair
                       Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas
     19                Philip Montgomery, Dallas, Texas
                       Donato D. Ramos, Laredo, Texas
     20                Kelly W. Rising, M.D., Beaumont, Texas
                       Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas
     21   
          THE TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT:
     22   Robert L. Cook, Executive Director, and other personnel 
          of the Parks and Wildlife Department
     23   

     24   

     25   





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                                                                 2
      1                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Thank you.  We will 

      2   now convene the conservation committe.  The first order 

      3   of business is the approval of the minutes from the 

      4   previous meeting.

      5                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Motion.

      6                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Do I have a second? 

      7   Emeritus Bass, Barry Miller from the speaker's office, 

      8   Dealey Herndon, Al Henry, Phil Montgomery, Donato Ramos, 

      9   and, of course -- oh, and me.  I was on that.              

     10                  I also created a historical -- historical 

     11   sites advisory group to guide us in some of the charges 

     12   that were given to us by Sunset.  On that advisory group 

     13   were members of the Texas Historical Commission, 

     14   citizens, and renowned experts in that field.  They have 

     15   worked closely with staff on that portion of the land 

     16   and water conservation plan. 

     17                  We have held many, many public meetings.  

     18   We have gotten counsel and guidance from other advisory 

     19   groups.  And I also want to mention that before we got 

     20   underway in this significant task, we considered 

     21   contracting out for the inventory work.  And after a lot 

     22   of consideration, we decided that this was a task that 

     23   our own staff was more than up to. 

     24                  And I was -- we were correct.  Our people 

     25   have done a fabulous job on what I think is a monumental 





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                                                                 3
      1   effort, and one that will last for a long, long time and 

      2   will be utilized by many folks for a long time.  And, 

      3   anyway, our confidence was not misplaced.  You all have 

      4   done a terrific job.  And I'm looking forward to your 

      5   presentation.

      6                  MR. BECKCOM:  I'm Chris Beckcom.  I'm the 

      7   head of the Master Planning Program in the 

      8   Infrastructure Division.  And the actual task of doing 

      9   inventory for the statewide plan fell into my shop 

     10   roughly 14 months ago.  So I'm very pleased to have an 

     11   opportunity to briefly present it to y'all and show you 

     12   what we've done with it to not only make it available to 

     13   the agency, but also briefly discuss what all is 

     14   included inside that inventory.

     15                  Of course, as you know, the inventory was 

     16   required as a support database for the Land and Water 

     17   Resource Conservation Recreation Plan.  And also what 

     18   we've done, we've actually -- we have enabled this data 

     19   to make it available to our agency.  We anticipate it 

     20   will be on the intranet shortly after this week.  I 

     21   guess the theory is, what good is data if you can't get 

     22   to it. 

     23                  This is probably one of the most 

     24   comprehensive park and public lands conservation lands 

     25   inventories that may have been undertaken in the state.  





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                                                                 4
      1   I can confidently say that because the way we approached 

      2   it.  We didn't just do a count of acres per county and 

      3   get a figure and throw it down.  This is actually 

      4   spatial data.  And when I say that, that means 

      5   everything we've counted and can account for in the 

      6   state is mapped where it belongs in the state. 

      7                  So with that data, you can overlay any 

      8   data.  You can connect to the ground in Texas, whether 

      9   it's demographics, planning regions, eco regions, you 

     10   name it, can then be correlated to all this data set 

     11   statewide, which is a huge tool for analysis from now 

     12   into the immediate and near future. 

     13                  Through the inventory, since the task at 

     14   hand was to inventory every governmental entity, which, 

     15   again, is monumental, as Chairman Armstrong said.  We 

     16   contacted virtually every Federal Agency, Council of 

     17   Governments, every River Authority, every city directly 

     18   with a population over 25,000 to get direct data.  We 

     19   went to the source everywhere we could.  We didn't want 

     20   second or third hand data.  We contacted cities.  I 

     21   think I personally contacted about 78 of them myself to 

     22   get that data and bring it into this data set.

     23                  What we've done -- this is the opening 

     24   page.  I've got a series of screen captures here for the 

     25   data set itself just to present how we packaged it up. 





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                                                                 5
      1   This is a built-in page, obviously, of how we link to 

      2   all the different data sets.  This is the opening page 

      3   for the Parks and Wildlife -- I apologize for the 

      4   smallness of the images.  It is quite difficult to see 

      5   here.  On your own screen, it would be much more 

      6   legible. 

      7                  We've enabled actually the map itself.  

      8   You can zoom into this.  You can pan into it.  It's 

      9   dynamic that you can actually click on a property and a 

     10   fact sheet will pop up.  Something -- well, actually a 

     11   table of data will pop up to tell you all the 

     12   information about that site.  We've compiled for Parks 

     13   and Wildlife properties roughly 150 attributes on each 

     14   property.  We actually have mapped 222 properties TWD 

     15   properties in the system here for all the TWD 

     16   properties. 

     17                  To ease use of this, data fact sheets 

     18   were created through a partnership with the natural 

     19   leaders program.  Beau Hardegree and Cory Evans created 

     20   them.  And in their project, they took the data that we 

     21   generated in the inventory and compiled it into fact 

     22   sheets.  So these fact sheets will be on-line, as well.  

     23   This is a direct link to those, so you can get to them 

     24   quickly.  You don't have to browse a map of Texas to get 

     25   to them.  And these, of course, can be loaded right into 





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                                                                 6
      1   your browser and then printed out. 

      2                  We didn't stop with TPWD lands.  We 

      3   actually have data on all the federal properties in the 

      4   state.  We've mapped 80, I believe is the count on 

      5   federal properties for authorized or administrative 

      6   boundaries.  But we took it a step further than that.  

      7   We realized the analysis was going to require more than 

      8   just administrative boundaries. 

      9                  Often with federal properties, and the 

     10   national forests are a perfect case in point, that was 

     11   actually inside the boundary is not actually national 

     12   forest land.  So we took it that next step forward, and 

     13   we actually -- I do not have it in this image, but it's 

     14   available.  That we can actually show you properties 

     15   actually owned by the National Forest Service inside of 

     16   their boundaries. 

     17                  So in the analysis we did, we actually 

     18   used -- owned and managed acres by those agencies, not 

     19   always to be seen as a National Forest in Texas in 

     20   which, you know, half the land inside that boundary may 

     21   not actually be managed strictly for conservation and/or 

     22   recreation uses.  The same way with other conservation 

     23   recreation lands. 

     24                  Part of our charge was to map all state 

     25   lands.  So we actually have representative of data sets 





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                                                                 7
      1   from the Texas Forest Service for their boundaries.  GLO 

      2   shared their boundaries with us to the extent they 

      3   could.  Of course counties, river authorities, and quite 

      4   a few non-profit organizations.  TNC was very 

      5   cooperative.  Audubon was very cooperative.  Katy 

      6   Prairie shared their data, on and on.  So we have quite 

      7   an extensive data set of non-governmental entities and 

      8   non-profits that allowed access to their properties or 

      9   have a keen interest in conservation preservation of 

     10   natural resources.

     11                  The one that ate up a lot of our time 

     12   here is city parks and preserves.  Again, we directly 

     13   contacted every city of 25,000 or larger.  Our maps and 

     14   database includes almost 6,000 individual parks in the 

     15   state of Texas now for the city layer alone.  As you can 

     16   see on the screen, we do have attributes for those, for 

     17   who owns them, what city they're in, the size of it, and 

     18   its designation inside that city.  So we know if it's a 

     19   Greenbelt, if it's a rec center, how they manage it.  

     20   That way, as well.  So we can draw conclusions from 

     21   that.  What's on that property, as far as the actual use 

     22   of it.  Whether it's dedicated Greenbelt or anticipate a 

     23   high development recreation, you know, ball fields and 

     24   the like on that.             

     25                  And last, but not least, the natural 





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                                                                 8
      1   resources in Texas.  Of course, everything gets measured 

      2   against this for us.  Quite a bit of that, at least. 

      3   What we've done here, we've mapped the natural regions 

      4   and sub regions in the state.  We actually have the eco 

      5   regions, as well.  I did not have them in this demo 

      6   here, but they are available.  All the stream segments 

      7   in Texas based national hydrogic data set.  That data 

      8   sets from TNRCC and their stream segment definitions, 

      9   augmented by our resource protection water group for 

     10   their quality, as well. 

     11                  Again, for all the rivers themselves, all 

     12   the lakes and bays of Texas, we have here, every new 

     13   data available to them.  Cooperation from the inland 

     14   fisheries division on their data set -- has been 

     15   incorporated in.  So any data they keep, say, on any 

     16   lake in Texas is represented in this database.  If you 

     17   clicked on Lake Ray Roberts, you would get their entire 

     18   data set for that lake.  It would appear before you, as 

     19   well, on this. 

     20                  And in a very quick nutshell, that's the 

     21   data set and inventory that was used for compliance with 

     22   SB 305, and also the real meat behind any analysis 

     23   that's been done for the plan itself.

     24                  MR. FRANCELL:  Thanks, Chris.

     25                  MR. BECKCOM:  Thank you.





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                                                                 9
      1                  MR. FRANCELL:  Everything we did in this 

      2   plan kind of hinged on this information.  And Chris 

      3   really wanted to go through it in an interactive way 

      4   that you could actually see when you click on the site 

      5   and what comes up.  And we were afraid that that might 

      6   somehow not translate well in here.  So if anybody's 

      7   interested, it will be on our intranet and we can show 

      8   that to you.  It is good information.  Chris has helped 

      9   a whole lot with this plan, but there were plenty of 

     10   other staff members, division directors that we worked 

     11   with over the last year and got lots of help. 

     12                  So Emily and I have been the coordinators 

     13   and editors of this thing and have really gotten lots of 

     14   input.  And thank the staff for their help.  This is the 

     15   second to last step in the process.  We're going to have 

     16   a red line draft to you tomorrow morning that you'll 

     17   actually adopt.  There will be some minor changes, and 

     18   we'll have that to you in the morning. 

     19                  I'm just going to go through very quickly 

     20   the bill.  The Sunset Bill required that we do this 

     21   plan.  It required that we inventory resources, that we 

     22   develop a ten-year strategic plan, that the Commission 

     23   adopt this plan prior to October 15th of this year, and 

     24   that we use this plan in guiding our decisions on all 

     25   kinds of issues, like land acquisition, partnerships 





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                                                                10
      1   with private land owners, et cetera.

      2                  As Chairman Armstrong said, she appointed 

      3   a committee that's been meeting over the last year. 

      4   There are many commissioners and others involved.  They 

      5   helped us develop a plan that analyzed the state's 

      6   needs, identified threats, and established priorities.             

      7   The outcome of the land conservation side of this is 

      8   encompassed in this slide using data on threats to land 

      9   resources. 

     10                  Using data on wildlife management plans 

     11   and conservation land and using information on 

     12   biodiversity, we cranked out this final map of where our 

     13   ecoregion priorities are.  The areas in red were the 

     14   three ecoregions that sort of rose to the top, the Gulf 

     15   Coast, South Texas, and the Black Land Prairies.  And 

     16   then there's a second tier and then a third tier.  This 

     17   will help us in where we may hire, or efforts for a 

     18   technical guidance biologist in the future, and all 

     19   kinds of efforts.

     20                  We also looked at recreation in the 

     21   state.  You've seen this map before.  75 percent of 

     22   Texas lives in this bubbled area that sort of follows 

     23   our major interstates.  And only 25 percent of our park 

     24   land is in that area.  The plan recommends that we have 

     25   an acquisition focus based around where the people are, 





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                                                                11
      1   because trends are showing that visitors to state parks 

      2   and wildlife management areas are spending less time. 

      3   They're getting up in the morning, getting there, coming 

      4   home.  At most, spending one night. 

      5                  As the chairman said, we looked also at 

      6   historic sites in Texas.  We had experts evaluate the 

      7   importance of these sites.  Tomorrow I'll go through 

      8   what the criteria was, but this is the results.  The 

      9   sites that ended up on the bottom end of that list, 

     10   Acton, Confederate Reunion Grounds.  The biggest gaps 

     11   are in historic sites in Texas and how we can fill 

     12   those.  And another monumental effort of doubling lands 

     13   under wildlife management plans over the next ten years 

     14   to 28 million acres. 

     15                  There's a large component in the plan on 

     16   water.  Over the last 12 years, Parks and Wildlife has 

     17   been identifying the water needs of our bay and estuary 

     18   system.  We actually have that information for our major 

     19   bay and estuary systems now.  And this plan lays out a 

     20   strategy for completing these studies in the 15 major 

     21   river basins in Texas, sets a goal of completing that by 

     22   2012.  Getting us the information that we'll need when 

     23   water planning decisions are made across the state. 

     24                  We set some goals for water, completing 

     25   these studies, working with the regulatory agencies to 





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                                                                12
      1   get their recommendations implemented, including water 

      2   recommendations in all wildlife management plans.  This 

      3   is going to benefit Texas in a number of ways.  Not only 

      4   from a habitat perspective, but also the amount of water 

      5   and the quality of that water running off the land and 

      6   into our rivers, and ultimately bay and estuaries.

      7                  We set a goal for maintaining fishing 

      8   license sales and also hunting license sales at their 

      9   current levels by recruiting new anglers and new 

     10   hunters.  From a fishing perspective, this is important 

     11   because they've been our best advocates on water issues 

     12   in this state.  And we need to make sure that their 

     13   numbers are maintained, that they're strong, and that 

     14   there are people out there that are paying attention and 

     15   helping us and supporting us on resource issues.

     16                  And we talk about reducing and continuing 

     17   to work on the coastal fishing industry on overfishing 

     18   and bycatch.  Emily is going to talk about the public 

     19   comment, and then we'll be done.

     20                  CHAIRMAN ARMITANO:  One of the most 

     21   important things for the strategic land and water 

     22   planning committee was to get the public involved 

     23   throughout the whole process.  And we started out by 

     24   printing our -- the draft outline on the web.  And we 

     25   had two constituent meetings in April to get input prior 





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                                                                13
      1   to developing the first draft.

      2                  The first draft, we put on our web site 

      3   on June 20th.  And then we went around the state and had 

      4   eight public meetings in Plano, Nacogdoches, Harlingen, 

      5   El Paso, Abilene, Amarillo, Houston, and Austin on the 

      6   7th.  And nearly 400 people attended.  There was a lot 

      7   of interest, a lot of good comments.  And all in all, 

      8   throughout the whole process, we've received about 1200 

      9   e-mails, 200 letters, 688 petitions, as of today.

     10                  The -- specifically, the comments kind of 

     11   laid out into three themes.  We had an overwhelming 

     12   amount of comments on making the draft plan bolder than 

     13   the original draft.  Specifically, adopting a 55-acre 

     14   per 1,000 person standard for state parks; adopting a 

     15   25-acre per 1,000 standard for local parks; making 

     16   recommendations to acquire water rights; and making the 

     17   language on purchase of development rights stronger.

     18                  In addition, we got 179 e-mails, 41 

     19   letters, numerous phone calls, and a lot of public 

     20   comments at the meetings on opposition to the -- for 

     21   divestiture of historic sites and state parks.  Mostly, 

     22   they were about Acton, McKinney Falls, Confederate 

     23   Reunion Grounds, Lockhart, Starr Mansion, Eagle Mountain 

     24   Lake, and Big Springs State Park.

     25                  We got about 50 comments from our 





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                                                                14
      1   technical -- I'm sorry -- technical comments about input 

      2   on the plan and how to make it better overall from our 

      3   constituent groups, experts in the field, and our 

      4   advisory committees, which we relied on a lot for this 

      5   process.  And in response to the -- to the amount of 

      6   comments that we got, the Strategic Land and Water 

      7   Planning Committee met again to discuss all of the 

      8   comments and take all of them into account.  We worked 

      9   with Commissioner Montgomery over the last few weeks to 

     10   -- who guided the response and the incorporation of 

     11   those comments into the final draft. 

     12                  Some of the things that we included were, 

     13   we tried to make the plan bolder by including measurable 

     14   goals in the -- as a whole section.  And we are going to 

     15   update the plan prior to every legislative -- every 

     16   other legislative session and review it yearly.  And we 

     17   strengthen strategies from partnerships with private 

     18   organizations and others.

     19                  We posted as a final draft last Friday. 

     20   And we sent copies to all of you.  I think you received 

     21   it.  And we will have red line copy tomorrow.  And 

     22   that's it.

     23                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Thank you.  Do we 

     24   have any comments, the Commission?

     25                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  I think they 





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                                                                15
      1   did a great job.

      2                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Mr. Henry?

      3                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  On the public 

      4   hearing in Houston, I just -- the staff from Jeff, 

      5   Emily, Bob did a tremendous job handling some very 

      6   sticky comments.  They handled themselves extremely 

      7   well.  And some of the comments were touchy, let's just 

      8   say.  But I just want to commend them on a job well 

      9   done.

     10                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Commissioner 

     11   Fitzsimons?

     12                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Ditto.  It's -- 

     13   I was at the Austin meeting.  And you did an excellent 

     14   job.  I don't know how you got all this done with all 

     15   the comments and all the revisions.  And every time I'd 

     16   turn around, there would appear perfect work.  And it 

     17   was very well done.  And I want to congratulate you 

     18   because I know -- I know you've worked very hard.  It's 

     19   obvious from the product.  Thank you.

     20                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Mr. Cook?

     21                  MR COOK:  I just -- you know, the 

     22   accolades here are all appreciated.  And the staff is -- 

     23   the staff is most appreciative of constituents' input.  

     24   It was important to us because of the -- of the -- 

     25   really, the significance and value of this plan would 





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                                                                16
      1   not have been as meaningful without it.

      2                  In addition, the input from this group 

      3   has been -- has been considerable and is appreciated 

      4   sincerely.  There were decision points at times there.  

      5   You know, do we talk about this or do we not?  And some 

      6   decisions -- we've made some decisions.  And the 

      7   committee guided us through that process.  And I think a 

      8   document that ends up being -- really speaking to 

      9   conservation and recreation, which is where we started 

     10   out.  And I certainly appreciate Jeff and Emily's input.

     11                  And I want to call special attention to 

     12   Beckom, to Chris's and his group's deal.  You know, when 

     13   we started this, I gave them an impossible assignment. 

     14   I'll just tell you.  Guess what?  They did it.  We 

     15   wanted this set of information, this set of data to be 

     16   useful.  Useful to a park manager, useful to the 

     17   maintenance manager for that region, useful to our WMA 

     18   people, where they could actually access that 

     19   information and utilize it in their day-to-day work. 

     20   Where you can access it.

     21                  As you have an opportunity to visit these 

     22   sites and know about these sites and know what's going 

     23   on, know about the number FTEs there, the repair 

     24   projects, and maintenance program, whatever it may be. 

     25   And that information is there.  And I'm really proud of 





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                                                                17
      1   the group and the national leaders group that helped put 

      2   that together.  It's pretty impressive.

      3                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Commissioner 

      4   Montgomery?

      5                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Just a couple 

      6   of quick comments.  I've had some experience in the 

      7   commercial mapping business.  And I think the technical 

      8   side of this is fabulous and really impressive.  And 

      9   I've seen how hard it could be and how difficult it is 

     10   to put it together, so I appreciate what you've done.

     11                  And Jeff and Emily, I think you all did a 

     12   great job pulling it together and being objective 

     13   arbitrators of the process, which is not simple.  And it 

     14   was challenging and a great testament to your skill and 

     15   maturity.  I do think for us there's -- a lot of 

     16   backbone that is going to be required over the next 

     17   couple of years to really implement and oversee the 

     18   implementation of what's in there.

     19                  There's a lot of very powerful and 

     20   profound ideas and reshaping and reorienting that's 

     21   going to come from this that I know I don't fully 

     22   appreciate yet, even having sat through the committee 

     23   process.  So I think we all, in voting for it -- 

     24   resolving to get behind it and stay behind it for a 

     25   sustained period of time.





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                                                                18
      1                  And in the last thought -- and I know I'm 

      2   -- if Jeff and them would put up with me in the 

      3   editorial side of this, it does present a real financial 

      4   challenge in that it's not funded.  We've got a lot of 

      5   things we're saying we're going to do that aren't funded 

      6   and that are going to be very difficult to fund through 

      7   state funds, given the environment -- the fiscal 

      8   environment the state is in.

      9                  So that what I think it puts particularly 

     10   on the Commission is an obligation to really be -- I 

     11   hate to use the word creative because it sounds 

     12   superficial, but creative in the sense of creating 

     13   something new in our leadership and skill application to 

     14   help fund and find alternative sources of funding for 

     15   these things that are still consistent with our mission.

     16                  But the private sector, nonprofit sector, 

     17   collaborative, and other public entities can take all of 

     18   that.  And we all need to be thinking about that very, 

     19   very actively, I think, in order to be successful at 

     20   accomplishing all this.

     21                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Are there any other 

     22   comments?

     23                  I would like to make a comment here.  I 

     24   won't say thank you again.  I think everyone here has 

     25   done an excellent job in giving credit where credit is 





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                                                                19
      1   well due.

      2                  The -- there will be people who look at 

      3   this plan and will say that it is not ambitious enough. 

      4   And there will be people who look at this plan and say 

      5   that it is too ambitious.  I think that the plan we laid 

      6   out here is achievable.  I think it's defensible.  I 

      7   think that there is only so much that the Commission can 

      8   do or that the staff can do.

      9                  In the end, Texans, if they find the 

     10   goals in this plan worthy, must express their desires 

     11   through the legislative process and through the ballot 

     12   box.  We will do everything we can to be creative in the 

     13   partnerships that we nurture and encourage to realize 

     14   some of these goals.  But in the end, there are not 

     15   enough tax dollars currently available to fund the goals 

     16   laid out in this plan.

     17                  I thank everybody for this very rewarding 

     18   process that we've been through.  I think anybody that's 

     19   been involved has come away with a new found respect and 

     20   enthusiasm for this wonderful department and the 

     21   terrific staff and the admirable goals that I think not 

     22   only the department has, but indeed the citizens of this 

     23   state.  Thank you, all.

     24                  The next item is -- where is my sheet, 

     25   Mr. Cook?  On nomination item number three, nomination 





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                                                                20
      1   of oil and gas leases, Harris County, Ronnie Ray. 

      2   Accounts.  Are there any questions?

      3                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Yes.  Question 

      4   concerning your last comment.  We talked last year at 

      5   some point about restricting some of these revenues 

      6   specifically to the development of Sheldon State Park.  

      7   What happened on that have access to that account, but 

      8   not any further than that.

      9                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Can you do it 

     10   or not?  Aside for the parks that they're near, but you 

     11   may want to think about the poor relatives with surface 

     12   --

     13                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Well, we were 

     14   thinking somewhat about that.  We weren't -- as you 

     15   recall during that discussion, that wasn't 100 percent 

     16   dedication.  We had some discussion at that time that we 

     17   wouldn't want to do that.  But given the desirability of 

     18   the development of Sheldon, this would be an ideal way 

     19   to at least start it. 

     20                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Commissioner Henry 

     21   -- how about this?  Why don't we go and find out what 

     22   the minutes say and come back and take this issue up 

     23   after lunch?  We will go ahead and break for executive 

     24   session and take up this matter after lunch, after we've 

     25   gotten our facts straight.  Is that -- then we will 





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                                                                21
      1   adjourn.  Is that correct?  Recess.  We will go -- we 

      2   will recess for executive session.

      3                  (RECESS.)

      4                  CHAIRMAN ARMSTRONG:  Good afternoon.  The 

      5   first order of business, I would like to -- reconvene 

      6   the conservation committee or correct staff having 

      7   checked the record, Commissioner Henry is correct that 

      8   he believed -- the meeting a year ago, that the proceeds 

      9   from the nomination oil and gas lease for Sheldon Lake 

     10   were to be detained by Sheldon.  That's correct.  And I 

     11   direct to staff to add that to the motion that we'll 

     12   bring back up tomorrow.  With that, I adjourn the 

     13   conservation committee.  And we will begin the public 

     14   hearing.

     15                  (HEARING ADJOURNED)

     16   

     17   

     18   

     19   

     20   

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     22   

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     25   





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                                                                22
      1                REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

      2   STATE OF TEXAS   )

      3   COUNTY OF TRAVIS )

      4   

      5        I, SHANA R. WISE, a Certified Court Reporter in and 

      6   for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that the 

      7   foregoing pages constitute a full, true, and correct 

      8   transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and 

      9   Wildlife Commission on August 28, 2002 in the Commission 

     10   Hearing Room of the Texas Parks and Wildlife 

     11   Headquarters Complex, Austin, Travis County, Texas.

     12        I FURTHER CERTIFY that the proceedings of said 

     13   public meeting were reported by me and accurately 

     14   reduced to typewriting under my supervision and control.

     15        WITNESS MY HAND this the 21st day of October, 2002.

     16   
          
     17   
                                                               
     18                SHANA R. WISE, CSR NO. 6642    
                       Expiration Date:  12-31-02
     19                7800 IH 10 West
                       Suite 100
     20                San Antonio, Texas  78230
                       (210) 377-3027
     21   
          
     22   EBS NO. 133345

     23   

     24   

     25   

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