Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Public Hearing

November 8, 2001

Commission Hearing Room
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744

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           7             BE IT REMEMBERED, that heretofore on the 8th day  

           8   of November, 2001, there came to be heard matters under 

           9   the regulatory authority of the Parks and Wildlife 

          10   Commission of Texas, in the Commission Hearing Room of the 

          11   Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, 

          12   Texas, beginning at 9:00 a.m. to wit: 

          13    

          14    

          15    

          16   APPEARANCES: 
               THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION: 
          17    

          18   CHAIR:    Katharine Armstrong Idsal, San Antonio, Texas 
                         Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas (Absent) 
          19             Philip Montgomery, Dallas, Texas 
                         Ernest Angelo, Jr., Vice-Chairman, Midland, Texas 
          20             John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas 
                         Donato Ramos, Laredo, Texas 
          21             Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas 
                         Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas (Absent) 
          22             Joseph Fitzsimons, San Antonio, Texas 

          23    

          24   THE TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION: 
               Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director, and other personnel 
          25   of the Parks and Wildlife Department 


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           1   OTHER APPEARANCES: 

           2   Mr. John Jefferson 
               Self 
           3   10433 Firethorn Lane 
               Austin, Texas  78750 
           4    

           5   Mr. Robert Chandler 
               Self 
           6   503 Verne 
               Rockport, Texas 
           7    

           8   Ms. Muriel Tipps 
               Matagorda County Seafood 
           9   P.O. Box 260 
               Cedar Lane, Texas  77415 
          10    

          11   Mr. Ellis Gilleland 
               Texas Animals 
          12   P.O. Box 9001 
               Austin, Texas 78766 
          13    

          14   Mr. Jim Atkins 
               Saltwater Fisheries Enhancement Association 
          15   510 Harper 
               Corpus Christi, Texas  78411 
          16   

          17   

          18   

          19   

          20   

          21   

          22   

          23   

          24   

          25   


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           1                      PUBLIC HEARING 
                                    9:00 a.m. 
           2    

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The meeting is called to 

           4   order.  Before proceeding with any business, I believe 

           5   Mr. Sansom has a statement to make. 

           6                  MR. SANSOM:  Madame Chairman, and members 

           7   of the Commission, a public notice of this meeting 

           8   containing all items on the proposed agenda has been filed 

           9   in the office of Secretary of State.  This is required by 

          10   Chapter 551 of the Government Code and referred to as the 

          11   Open Meetings Law.  I would like for this action to be 

          12   noted in the official record of the minutes. 

          13             Ladies and gentlemen, we welcome all of you here 

          14   today and appreciate your presence.  As you know, the 

          15   Chairman is in charge of the meeting.  And normally, I 

          16   assist her as Sergeant at Arms.  I want to remind each of 

          17   you that if you would like to speak, there are cards for 

          18   you to sign out in the -- in the corridor and the Chairman 

          19   will call your name from those cards.  And so if you wish 

          20   to speak, you need to fill out a card. 

          21             Everyone will be allowed the opportunity to 

          22   speak from the podium.  So when your name is called by the 

          23   Chairman, please come forward to the podium, state your 

          24   name and who you represent, if anyone other than yourself.  

          25   The Chairman may choose to call the next person in line, 


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           1   and so the second person, if you would, could come to the 

           2   back of the room and be ready.  Everyone who would like to 

           3   address the Commission, will have three minutes this 

           4   morning to speak.  I will keep track of the time using 

           5   this little traffic clock and notify you when your three 

           6   minutes are up.  When your time is up, please move quickly 

           7   to your seat so that others may speak.  Your time be will 

           8   extended if a Commissioner has a question for you.  If the 

           9   Commissioners talk among themselves or ask other 

          10   questions, that time will not be counted against you. 

          11             As always, I would appreciate very much if you 

          12   conduct yourselves in a professional manner and not be 

          13   argumentative or critical of others.  We all are here to 

          14   serve the people of Texas and its resources.  If you have 

          15   some materials you would like to give to the Commission, I 

          16   would appreciate it if you would give it to Ms. Estrada 

          17   over here on my right, and she will make sure that the 

          18   Commissioners have it.  So once again, thank you all for 

          19   being here today. 

          20                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Our first order of 

          21   business is the approval of the minutes from the previous 

          22   meeting.  We do not have Ms. Dinkins with us today, but we 

          23   have other talented Commissioners that are helping us with 

          24   the previous -- the minutes from the previous meeting. 

          25                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Madame Chair, 


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           1   Thank you.  I don't presume to -- to be able to do the 

           2   same job that Commissioner Dinkins does in reviewing the 

           3   minutes.  But I did find a reference on Page 14, Line 2 to 

           4   "Sam County Almanac."  I think that's Sand County Almanac.  

           5   And there are a few other typos that I've pointed out to 

           6   Gene McCarty and the "Sam County" again appears at 

           7   Page 13, Line 5, and that should be Sand County Almanac.  

           8   And one other, I thought was kind of funny.  Page 58, Line 

           9   11, I think I was a accused of having canned hunts, not 

          10   "can't hunts."  And that was on Line 11.  Thank you. 

          11                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Good job. 

          12                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  If there are no other 

          13   corrections or comments, do we have a motion for approval? 

          14                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Motion for approval as 

          15   amended. 

          16                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second. 

          17                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?   

          18                  ("Aye") 

          19                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Opposed?   

          20             We've approved the minutes.   

          21             The second order of business is acceptance of 

          22   the gifts. 

          23              TPWD DONATIONS OF $500 OR MORE 

          24       (Donors are listed in the following order:   
                     Donor; Description; Purpose of Donation) 
          25    


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           1   (1)  Foundation for North American Wildsheep; CASH; Desert       
                    Bighorn Sheep 
           2   (2)  Parks and Wildlife Foundation of Texas; CASH; The  
                    Great Texas Birding Classic 
           3   (3)  Mr. Stephen Gast; CASH; The Great Texas Birding   
                    Classic 
           4   (4)  Mr. Frank Gill; CASH; The Great Texas Birding Classic 

           5   (5)  Phillips Petroleum; CASH; The Great Texas Birding  
                    Classic 
           6   (6)  El Paso Community Foundation; CASH; Hueco Tanks State  
                    Historical Park-Hueco Tanks:  An Oasis of Nature and   
           7        Culture 
               (7)  S.E.A.; CASH; CCA/CPL Marine Development Center 
           8   (8)  Sea Grant Marine Advisory; Composting Toilet; Sheldon  
                    Lake S.P.-Equipment 
           9   (9)  Parks and Wildlife Foundation of Texas; CASH; Sheldon  
                    Lake S.P.-Equipment 
          10   (10) National Wild Turkey Federation; CASH; Pastures for  
                    Upland Birds 
          11   (11) Natural Resource Conservation Service; CASH; Pastures  
                    for Upland Birds 
          12   (12) Liberty-Fylau IDS; CASH; Dinosaur Valley State Park 
               (13) Liberty IDS; CASH; Dinosaur Valley State Park 
          13   (14) Liberty IDS; CASH; Dinosaur Valley State Park 
               (15) Marine Towing and Salvage; CASH; Matagorda Island  
          14        State Park 
               (16) West Texas Industries, Inc.; Fish Culture Items;  
          15        Heart of the Hills Research Station 
               (17) Parks and Wildlife Foundation of Texas; Conference  
          16        meeting rooms, Meals, and Lodging; FY01 Student   
                    Internship Program Natural Classroom Symposium 
          17   (18) Texas Wildlife Association; Ammunition; Youth  
                    Shooting Sports Event on the Chaparral WMA 
          18   (19) San Antonio Chapter of CCA; Classic Canopy Tent;  
                    Promote outreach and conservation education events at  
          19        Coastal Fish Hatcheries 
               (20) Exxon Mobile Foundation; CASH; Hunter Education  
          20        Program 
                                   TOTAL               $136,298.96 
          21    

          22                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Move approval.  

          23                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second. 

          24                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor? 

          25                  ("Aye") 


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           1                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Opposed? 

           2             Third order of business, retirement certificates 

           3   and service awards. 

           4                  MR. SANSOM:  Madame Chairman, if you could 

           5   join me at the podium at this time.  In a great honor and 

           6   privilege for those of us who serve Parks and Wildlife and 

           7   that is the opportunity to recognize those employees for 

           8   long years of service to Texas and those who are retiring.   

           9             Today after 22 years of service, Mohammed 

          10   Sirajuddin is retiring from the Construction Division in 

          11   Infrastructure.  He began here as an engineering assistant 

          12   and he's worked on projects throughout our State including 

          13   the Fannin Battleground, Goose Island, and Stephen F. 

          14   Austin.  Siraj, as we call him, is a civil engineer and he 

          15   has worked specifically on water and wastewater design, 

          16   which has played so much a part of our infrastructure 

          17   repair over the past several years.   

          18             It's important to note at this time that because 

          19   of the action of the voters of our State, because of the 

          20   work of Chairman Idsal and Harold Stone and Lydia Saldana 

          21   and many others, this function will now assume an even 

          22   greater responsibility for -- for the work in our 

          23   department over the next several years.  And Siraj has 

          24   played a large part in it, particularly in the renovation 

          25   of the Battleship Texas where he drafted all of the deck 


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           1   and hull schematics.  So please after 22 years of service, 

           2   retiring today, let's recognize Mohammed Sirajuddin.   

           3                  (Applause.) 

           4                  MR. SANSOM:  Let's have your picture made.  

           5   Now, hold it up.  Hold your certificate up.  There you go.  

           6   Thanks, Mohammad. 

           7             From the Wildlife Division, James Dillard, 

           8   worked two summers as an intern after graduating from A&M 

           9   and then he became full-time employed on the Statewide 

          10   Mourning Dove project for six months.  James left the 

          11   department for a couple of years and returned in 1969 as a 

          12   biologist in the Panhandle Wildlife Regulatory District in 

          13   Wheeler and later in Dumas.  He transferred to Possum 

          14   Kingdom in 1973 and then to Mineral Wells.  In 1995, he 

          15   was promoted to a technical guidance biologist which along 

          16   with his colleagues, has been responsible for the 

          17   preservation on private land of over 12 million acres of 

          18   habitat in the past six years.   

          19             Please recognize today for 35 years of service 

          20   to Texas Parks and Wildlife James E. Dillard from Mineral 

          21   Wells. 

          22                  (Applause.) 

          23                  MR. SANSOM:  Boy, I'll tell you, one of the 

          24   first Game Wardens I met in the field was down in Cotulla, 

          25   Larry Griffin.  There's probably very few men and women in 


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           1   our department who are as recognized by their neighbors 

           2   and friends as having contributed so much to conservation.  

           3   Larry came to work for the Department in 1966.  He 

           4   graduated from the 19th Academy and he was assigned to 

           5   Hildago County in Edinburg.  He's been in McAllen and was 

           6   transferred to Cotulla in LaSalle County, where he remains 

           7   today as one of the most distinguished wardens in our 

           8   system with 35 years of service.  Larry Griffin, from 

           9   Cotulla.   

          10                  (Applause.) 

          11                  MR. SANSOM:  I always take a great deal of 

          12   pride in receiving letters from all over the country about 

          13   inland fishing in Texas, freshwater fishing.  We have the 

          14   most aggressive fisheries management program in the 

          15   country and one of the leaders of that is Roger McCabe.  

          16   Roger came to work in 1966, as well, as an Extension 

          17   Biologist at Texoma Fishery Station.  He's worked in Tyler 

          18   on federal aid projects, he's worked in Marshall on public 

          19   management, water management in Northeast Texas and in 

          20   Corpus Christi with public water management in that part 

          21   of the State, as well.   

          22             Roger transferred to Waco as a district 

          23   supervisor with public water management and was promoted 

          24   to regional director and has worked in that capacity and 

          25   now he is being recognized by all of us for 35 years of 


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           1   service.  Roger McCabe from Inland Fisheries.   

           2                  (Applause.) 

           3                  MR. SANSOM:  Way to go Roger.  Thank you.   

           4                  (Applause.) 

           5                  MR. SANSOM:  For as long as I live, I will 

           6   not forget Delton Daugherty.  Delton Daugherty is -- we 

           7   recognize today for 30 years of service.  That entire 

           8   career has been spent in the Trans-Pecos, the park country 

           9   of Texas, the Big Bend area.  He started as a Park 

          10   Superintendent in 1971 at Fort Lancaster and was quickly 

          11   promoted to the Regional Maintenance Supervisor which is 

          12   where I first met Delton.  Delton and I met cleaning 

          13   restrooms and garbage cans together at Big Bend Ranch.  He 

          14   is the absolute exemplary Parks and Wildlife employee.  He 

          15   is one of the most respected people in our system.  He is 

          16   responsible for 17 parks, covering 22 counties.  During 

          17   his tenure, 11 new State Parks have been added to our 

          18   system, Big Bend Ranch, Chinatis, Devils River, Devil's 

          19   Sinkhole, Franklin Mountains, Kickapoo Caverns, Magoffin 

          20   Home, Seminole Canyon and the Wyler Aerial Tramway.  That 

          21   encompasses about 390,000 acres of additional areas in our 

          22   system.  He has opened significant interpretative centers 

          23   at Barton Warnock, at Monahans and at Seminole Canyon.  

          24   And it is a great honor today to recognize after 30 years 

          25   of service, thankfully staying on for a few more, Delton 


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           1   Daugherty from Fort Davis, Texas.   

           2                  (Applause.) 

           3                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, Delton.  Thank you.   

           4                  (Applause.) 

           5                  MR. SANSOM:  Much of that renovation that 

           6   we've talked about so much these past years has taken 

           7   place not in State Parks but in fish hatcheries.  These 

           8   facilities are complex factories, in fact, in which 

           9   maintenance is a huge part of making sure that we are 

          10   continually able to put fish in the water.  In 1976, Jake 

          11   Isaac tried a long time to get to come on to work for 

          12   Parks and Wildlife and he finally become a summer intern 

          13   at Huntsville.  He was later named a park ranger and then 

          14   he was on -- on our payroll full time.  He transferred to 

          15   the A.E. Wood Hatchery as a biologist -- biology field 

          16   worker in 1979.  He's worked in the Tyler Hatchery.  He's 

          17   been at San Marcos twice.  He was moved more recently to 

          18   be the manager at Possum Kingdom, where today those 

          19   management skills have really come into play.  Along with 

          20   many other colleagues both in infrastructure and in inland 

          21   fisheries, Jake has supervised the renovation of the 

          22   hatchery which has included replacement of all of its 

          23   plumbing, renovation of all of its residences and further 

          24   office space and intensive fish production facilities.  So 

          25   please recognize from Graford, Texas on Lake Possum 


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           1   Kingdom, Jacob Isaac with 25 years of service.   

           2                  (Applause.) 

           3                  MR. SANSOM:  Thanks, Jake. 

           4                  (Applause.) 

           5                  MR. SANSOM:  Last year, I participated in 

           6   one of the most successful activities in Texas that is 

           7   designed to bring women into the out of doors, and it's a 

           8   redfish fishing tournament for women.  And one of the key 

           9   organizers for that is Karen Meador.  Karen started 

          10   working at Parks and Wildlife in 1976 as an administrative 

          11   technician actually in inland fisheries at that time.  

          12   After a year and a half, she became a -- received a 

          13   technician position with Coastal Fisheries at the marine 

          14   lab in Rockport.   

          15             Karen is a distinguished scientist who has been 

          16   involved in all aspects of sampling and fisheries 

          17   management in Aransas Bay, in Corpus Christi Bay and the 

          18   Gulf of Mexico itself.  She has 20 years of experience as 

          19   a full line supervisor of up to ten technicians, directing 

          20   their field operations.  And she has been the Ecosystem 

          21   Leader for Aransas Bay since November of 1992.  She's 

          22   worked with the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission on 

          23   black drum and Marine Mammal and Sea Turtles Strandings.  

          24   She has worked on an issue which is close to all of us 

          25   which is evaluation of shrimp management in Texas.  She's 


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           1   been Chairman of Estuarine Biodiversity Committee and 

           2   she's published numerous scientific papers and magazine 

           3   articles.  A distinguished colleague, scientist, and 

           4   biologist, Karen Meador from Rockport, Texas with 25 years 

           5   of service to Texas Parks and Wildlife.   

           6                  (Applause.) 

           7                  MR. SANSOM:  You go, girl.   

           8                  (Applause.) 

           9                  MR. SANSOM:  Scott Triebes, been with the 

          10   department for 25 years.  He's -- and all of it has been 

          11   at one of the most important sites in the western United 

          12   States for its history, the San Jacinto State Historical 

          13   Park.  He started out as a Ranger II, and he played a role 

          14   in one of Parks and Wildlife's finest hours, which is the 

          15   celebration of the Texas Sesquicentennial.  He created a 

          16   volunteer program there with the Harris County Supervision 

          17   and Corrections Department and installed the park's first 

          18   computers.  Please recognize with 25 years of service from 

          19   La Porte, Texas at San Jacinto, Scott Triebes.   

          20                  (Applause.) 

          21                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, Scott.  Thank you.  

          22   You.   

          23                  (Applause.) 

          24                  MR. SANSOM:  Again, from Infrastructure, 

          25   one who has grown in her responsibilities over the years 


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           1   to a very important position in our department, Lynda 

           2   Williams.  Lynda started in the Purchasing and Contracting 

           3   Branch of the Finance Division, and she moved up through 

           4   the ranks and held various positions through the last 25 

           5   years.  She's been a Project Cost Accountant in the Design 

           6   and Construction Division, she's been a Grants Auditor.  

           7   She's worked in the Grants and Aid Branch and as Special 

           8   Projects Coordinator in the Legislative Division.  Today 

           9   she is a senior Contract Specialist and is responsible for 

          10   soliciting, administering, and managing approximately $9.5 

          11   million in capital improvement projects for the north and 

          12   northeast regions of the State.  From here in Austin with 

          13   25 years of service in Infrastructure, Lynda D. Williams.   

          14                  (Applause.) 

          15                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, Lynda.  Thank you.   

          16                  (Applause.) 

          17                  MR. SANSOM:  From the Wildlife Division, 

          18   one of the great things that can be said about Johnnie 

          19   Comstock is that she went to work for Bob West, who we all 

          20   remember was the Regional Director of out in West until 

          21   his retirement in 1986.  She's currently working with 

          22   Ruben Cantu, who's the Regional Director.  And after Bob 

          23   all these years, I think she -- she's learned it well, and 

          24   she's a wonderful administrative technician in San Angelo.  

          25   Johnnie Comstock with 20 years of service.   


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           1                  (Applause.) 

           2                  MR. SANSOM:  Thanks, Johnnie. 

           3                  (Applause.) 

           4                  MR. SANSOM:  This Department is known 

           5   throughout the country for many things, but one of them 

           6   increasingly is its ability and the ability of its 

           7   scientists to work with private landowners to sometimes 

           8   even avoid the listing of species on the endangered 

           9   species list.  And one of the scientists who has been 

          10   probably as respected a fisheries scientist as there is in 

          11   the United States but who has led the effort to seek 

          12   protection for species through cooperative efforts is Gary 

          13   Garrett.  Gary is now at Ingram at the Mountain Home 

          14   Research Station.  He's been here for 20 years and his 

          15   research ranges from sport fish to endangered species with 

          16   particular emphasis on river conservation and native fish.  

          17   He currently holds a position of adjunct professor at 

          18   three different universities and serves on three federal 

          19   recovery teams and he is a fellow of the Texas Academy of 

          20   Science.  Please recognize Gary Garrett from Inland 

          21   Fisheries with 20 years of service.   

          22                  (Applause.) 

          23                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you.   

          24                  (Applause.) 

          25                  MR. SANSOM:  Then our next honoree is a man 


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           1   who created a program out of nothing but basically love 

           2   and determination.  One of the most extraordinary people 

           3   employed at Texas Parks and Wildlife is Ken Pollard.  Ken 

           4   Pollard was a Regional Maintenance Supervisor in Abilene 

           5   when I first met him, and he and I were involved in some 

           6   pretty tricky personnel issues, and I began to understand 

           7   what a wise and thoughtful and sensitive person he was.   

           8             Today, he is the commanding officer and the 

           9   chaplain for the Texas Buffalo Soldiers Regiment, a 

          10   program that he conceived but for which there is was no 

          11   money.  He called and he asked if he and a group of 

          12   African-American employees could set up a statewide 

          13   network of Buffalo Soldiers, Black Cowboys, Mexican 

          14   Cowboys and others who could show to the youth of our 

          15   State that there were heroic role models in their past.  

          16   This program today is known throughout the United States 

          17   through its living history, its trail rides, its campouts 

          18   and other venues.   

          19             The Texas Buffalo Soldiers Regiment has 

          20   conducted programs to more than 1 million youth and 

          21   families across Texas.  Kenneth has been involved in 

          22   videos, movies, documentaries, the Discovery Channel, the 

          23   Rough Riders and more.  He is the first African-American 

          24   Regional Supervisor for Texas Parks and Wildlife.  He 

          25   received the Department's distinguished award for outreach 


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           1   in 1997 and he was honored by Southern Living in 2001 as 

           2   its Texas Living Lone Star award recipient.  Please 

           3   recognize Captain in the Buffalo Soldiers, Ken Pollard.   

           4                  (Applause.) 

           5                  MR. SANSOM:  Back to Infrastructure, Bill 

           6   McDonald has been the only Landscape Architect for the 

           7   Department during the past ten years.  His duties have 

           8   ranged across the full spectrum from force account 

           9   projects to major multimillion dollar park designs 

          10   including Choke Canyon, Cooper Lake and sensitive 

          11   restorations of the old CC parks and more, Indian Lodge, 

          12   Palo Duro Canyon.  And Bill was very, very involved in one 

          13   of the Department's finest projects, the restoration and 

          14   construction at the Texas State Cemetery.  Please 

          15   recognize with 20 years of service Bill McDonald from 

          16   Infrastructure.   

          17                  (Applause.) 

          18                  MR. SANSOM:  There you go.  Thank you, 

          19   Bill.   

          20                  (Applause.) 

          21                  MR. SANSOM:  I was pleased today to welcome 

          22   our colleague of many years, Ken Conway, who will soon be 

          23   assuming responsibilities at the Landmark Inn in 

          24   Castroville.  He'll get a chance to work with Mary 

          25   Resendez.  Mary grew up in Castroville and started to work 


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           1   at the Department as a seasonal at the Landmark Inn in 

           2   1981, right after it opened.  Her main duty at that time 

           3   was housekeeping.  Today, she is a Ranger I there, and she 

           4   does not only the housekeeping but the grounds maintenance 

           5   and she prepares a wonderful breakfast for overnight 

           6   guests at one of Texas' most beloved historic sites, the 

           7   Landmark Inn.  From Castroville, Texas and State Parks, 

           8   Mary Resendez after 20 years. 

           9                  (Applause.) 

          10                  MR. SANSOM:  Way to go, Mary.   

          11                  (Applause.) 

          12                  MR. SANSOM:  Madame Chairman, members of 

          13   the Commission, I invite you now to join me in an 

          14   extraordinary honor of recognizing an employee who will 

          15   soon complete 50 years of continuous employment with this 

          16   Department.   

          17             In 1951, Gus Engeling was a young, vibrant, 

          18   energetic, dedicated biologist and game warden.  He was 

          19   assigned to the newly acquired Derden Wildlife Management 

          20   area near Palestine.  He hadn't been there but a matter of 

          21   weeks when he went out to check on the progress of a 

          22   repair crew and was murdered by a poacher.  At Gus' 

          23   funeral, Howard Dodgen who preceded me in this wonderful 

          24   job, offered his wife, his widow, Lisa Engeling, a job at 

          25   the Austin headquarters as a secretary.  And she went to 


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           1   work on February 12th of 1952.   

           2             The Wildlife Management area, as you know, has 

           3   since been named for Gus Engeling and it is one of our 

           4   most wonderful, wonderful venues.  Lisa has become one of 

           5   the key people in Texas Parks and Wildlife over that 50 

           6   years.  Her roles and responsibilities have included a 

           7   tremendously wide spectrum of administration, public 

           8   service and assistance.  She's played a major role in the 

           9   Public Hunting Program, the regulatory process, in 

          10   wildlife restoration, federal aid funding, wildlife 

          11   management areas and technical guidance.  For years, for 

          12   decades, she has administered the Parks and Wildlife 

          13   Mutual Association, which provides death benefits for 

          14   employees.  She's the "Godmother" of this agency.  And her 

          15   dedication, her perseverance and her exemplary service 

          16   during the past half century have set standards for all of 

          17   our employees.  She's Parks and Wildlife at its finest and 

          18   it is my honor to present her with the a service award for 

          19   50 years of service for Texas Parks and Wildlife.  Please 

          20   join me in welcoming Lisa Engeling.  

          21                  (Standing ovation, applause.) 

          22                  MR. SANSOM:  Now, Lisa, you're getting a 

          23   bunch of stuff.  We've got a certificate from the 

          24   Governor.  We've got a special 50-year certificate for 

          25   you, the only one in existence.  And we even have a 


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           1   50-year pin, so we have for you a beautiful -- a necklace 

           2   with the State of Texas for you.  Congratulations.   

           3                  (Standing ovation, applause.) 

           4                  MR. SANSOM:  And -- and anticipating more 

           5   years of service, we have for you 51 long stem roses. 

           6                  (Applause.) 

           7                  MR. SANSOM:  What an honor.  Thank you, 

           8   Lisa. 

           9                  (Applause.) 

          10                  MR. SANSOM:  And if you all will look to 

          11   the front of the room, just in front the dais, there is a 

          12   photograph of Gus Engeling which incidentally was made at 

          13   Hoskin's Mound in Brazoria County adjacent to Galveston 

          14   Bay when he first became a biologist.  Whosh (descriptive 

          15   sound).   

          16             Madame Chairman, each year, the Shikar Safari 

          17   International recognizes game wardens from North America 

          18   as Wildlife Conservation officers of the year.  This marks 

          19   the 22nd year this award has been presented to a deserving 

          20   Texas Game Warden. 

          21             And Andy Phillips, the president of that 

          22   organization is here along with one of my most beloved 

          23   hunting companions and a person who has never missed the 

          24   presentation of this award for 22nd years, former 

          25   commissioner of Parks and Wildlife, Mr. Luis Stumberg.   


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           1             Our Wildlife officer of the year is Jeff Cox.  

           2   He graduated from the academy in '91 and is stationed in 

           3   Upshur County.  Jeff is a former Marine captain, and was 

           4   awarded the Navy achievement medal.  He is a graduate of 

           5   Southwest Texas State University.  He is a certified 

           6   Marine Safety Officer Instructor, a Boater/Angle/Hunter 

           7   Education Instructor, a TCLEOSE Firearms Instructor and a 

           8   Peace Officer Classroom Instructor.  Last year alone, Jeff 

           9   spent 370 hours in a boat patrolling eight different lakes 

          10   and two major rivers in Texas.  He led his district in 

          11   apprehensions of Boating While Intoxicated.  He is an 

          12   astute investigator and has had numerous successful cases, 

          13   big game cases including many Class A misdemeanors and 

          14   State Jail felonies such as hunting deer at night, hunting 

          15   deer from a motor vehicle and hunting deer without 

          16   landowner consent.  It's actions and results like these 

          17   that gives me great pleasure in asking Mr. Phillips, 

          18   Mr. Stumberg and other members of the Shikar Safari Club 

          19   to recognize with all of us Game Warden Jeff Cox as the 

          20   Shikar Safari International 2001 Texas Wildlife 

          21   Conservation Officer of the Year. 

          22                  (Applause.) 

          23                  MR. PHILLIPS:  Madame Chairman, I just want 

          24   to say a couple of words, if we could, right quick.  It's 

          25   our honor to be here again.  Over 20 years now we've been 


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           1   doing this all across the United States and all the 

           2   Canadian Provinces.  The true distinction of this award is 

           3   that we don't make that selection.  The selection is made 

           4   by the officer's colleagues.  They are the ones that 

           5   decide who is the best of the best.  And it's a special 

           6   privilege for us to be here today to recognize a leader in 

           7   your department, Mr. Jeff Cox.  Congratulations.   

           8                  (Applause.) 

           9                  MR. PHILLIPS:  In addition, we have a lapel 

          10   pin that signifies you as a winner of the Wildlife Officer 

          11   of the Year Award which is one of the only non-department 

          12   issued accoutrements that you may wear on your uniform on 

          13   a daily basis, and I would suggest that you wear it with 

          14   pride. 

          15                  (Applause.) 

          16                  MR. PHILLIPS:  Congratulations.   

          17                  MR. SANSOM:  Congratulations, Jeff.  Good 

          18   work.   

          19                  (Applause.) 

          20                  MR. SANSOM:  Members, when I was asked, you 

          21   know, about the things that I remember and about Texas 

          22   Parks and Wildlife in the years that I've served here and 

          23   the high points and the low points, clearly I think the 

          24   lowest point was when we participated in saying goodbye to 

          25   a fallen colleague, Michael Pauling.   


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           1             Michael Pauling graduated from our Game Warden 

           2   Academy in 1996.  In May of this year he was honored by 

           3   Mothers Against Drunk Driving for his work in boating 

           4   while intoxicated enforcement.  He is a recipient this 

           5   year of the prestigious Southwestern Association of Fish 

           6   and Wildlife Agencies Officer of the Year.  He always had 

           7   an excellent work record and went well beyond the call of 

           8   duty when it came to getting the job done, including the 

           9   last day that he lived.  On that day, he stopped his 

          10   vehicle and offered his assistance in what turned out to 

          11   be basically a roadside domestic argument.  Mike was 

          12   attempting to protect the two children in the incident 

          13   when the car that he was in took off down the road.  Mike 

          14   was either thrown from the car or fell from it, but he was 

          15   fatally injured and passed away.  He leaves two wonderful 

          16   sons, Christopher and Phillip, and his wife Stephanie and 

          17   there are many members of his family here today. 

          18             In his honor, on behalf of Texas Parks and 

          19   Wildlife and the American Police Hall of Fame, I have the 

          20   honor of presenting him with a Medal of Honor 

          21   posthumously.  It's presented in memory of Michael 

          22   Pauling, who, in the performance of his duties as a Public 

          23   Safety Officer and Parks and Wildlife Game Warden gave his 

          24   life.  We will forever hold his name by placing it in the 

          25   Hall of Fame in Miami, Florida and on the Game Warden 


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           1   Memorial at the Texas Freshwater Fishery Center in Athens 

           2   so that his sacrifice, his dedication to conservation, law 

           3   enforcement, humanity, and justice will never be 

           4   forgotten.  Please recognize with me our fallen colleague 

           5   and comrade, Michael Pauling and his family who is here.   

           6                  (Standing ovation, applause.) 

           7                  (Photos taken.) 

           8                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you all.   

           9             Texas Parks and Wildlife has no partner in the 

          10   private sector as effective and as supportive as the Dow 

          11   Chemical Company.  From Sea Center to Austin's Woods and 

          12   beyond, Dow has been a partner in many of our most 

          13   critical conservation efforts.  They've been a key partner 

          14   in our communication efforts which is the purpose for 

          15   which we recognize them today.  Our radio program jointly 

          16   sponsored by Dow Chemical has aired more than 1,500 

          17   90-second radio programs since 1996.  Passport to Texas is 

          18   now heard on 100 radio stations and reaches 350,000 

          19   listeners every week.   

          20             Since 1996, cumulatively, Dow has contributed 

          21   more than $400,000 to this project.  Today we celebrate 

          22   the fifth anniversary, not only of that relationship, but 

          23   of Passport to Texas.  Before I ask Tommy Block, my good 

          24   friend and colleague, Ron Dipprey to come forward, I would 

          25   like to recognize another crucial partner in this most 


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           1   effective communication tool.  The lady that had the idea 

           2   for a statewide radio series in 1995 is Kathleen Jenkins.  

           3   She was not an employee of the Department, she was a 

           4   private contractor.  She started the Passport to Texas 

           5   series and nurtured it into a statewide program.  She's 

           6   attracted a talented team of people and leaves a great 

           7   legacy.  Today is she is no longer associated with the 

           8   program, but she has been replaced by another well-known 

           9   radio personality, Cecelia Nasti.  So I would like 

          10   Kathleen Jenkins, Tommy Block, and Ron Dippery to come 

          11   forward for a special presentation and thanks for Passport 

          12   to Texas.   

          13                  (Applause.) 

          14                  MR. SANSOM:  Steve Hazelwood is also here.  

          15   Thank you, Steve.  These commemorative items, Tommy and 

          16   Kathleen, are made from pieces of the San Jacinto 

          17   Monument, and they hopefully will be -- I will tell you, I 

          18   was in Tommy's office recently, and I was thrilled at the 

          19   amount of Parks and Wildlife memorabilia all over the 

          20   front office and hopefully this will be added to a 

          21   distinguished collection.  Thank you all. 

          22                  (Applause.) 

          23                  MR. SANSOM:  Joel Block, the voice of 

          24   Passport-to-Texas is here and Donna Endres.  Please stand 

          25   so we can thank you.   


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           1                  (Applause.) 

           2                  MR. SANSOM:  Members, several years ago, 

           3   the model -- the model for volunteer partnerships is the 

           4   Washington-on-the-Brazos State Park Association which made 

           5   a commitment to raise $1.2 million from private funds to 

           6   make Washington-on-the-Brazos, the Birthplace of Texas, 

           7   the finest park of its kind in the United States.  Today, 

           8   you may see there a state of the art visitors center, a 

           9   newly refurbished museum, a living history farm, and many 

          10   of the elements that other states only dream of as 

          11   elements of a historical park.  None of this would be 

          12   possible without the association.  And today its 

          13   president, Jim Ellison is here, along with a long time 

          14   activist and friend of our department and a leader in the 

          15   association, Mr. Allen Commander.  And they would like to 

          16   make a presentation to you at this time.  Please welcome 

          17   Jim Ellison and Allen Commander.   

          18                  (Applause.) 

          19                  MR. COMMANDER:  To reiterate our friend, 

          20   Andy's statement, Madame Chairman, and -- and members of 

          21   the Board, we committed to raise $1.2 million for the 

          22   Birthplace of Texas, and our goal remains.  We've come a 

          23   long way, but with Andy's help and this marvelous staff 

          24   here in this agency, we've come a long way to make this 

          25   the finest park of its kind in the United States.  That's 


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           1   our goal.  We're still working on it. 

           2             Our purpose today is to present to the Board the 

           3   results of another undertaking which was done with private 

           4   funds that we raised to enhance, in a small way, the 

           5   protection of some of the historical -- historically 

           6   significant artifacts that are housed at the park.  When 

           7   you come there, the living history farm centerpiece is the 

           8   Anson Jones plantation home called the Barrington.  Anson 

           9   Jones, of course, you remember was the last president of 

          10   the Republic of Texas.  Kids of all ages -- one of our 

          11   most popular attractions.  Kids of all ages come and enjoy 

          12   seeing farming as it was back in the 1800s in the republic 

          13   era.  Two stars of that effort are a team of Percheron 

          14   horses adequately named, Madame Chairman, Willie and 

          15   Waylon.  They're beautiful animals and you see them every   

          16   day there. 

          17             What we would like to do, if I could get my 

          18   friends Jim to do this, to give it to the Chairman, these 

          19   are measured drawings, Madame Chairman, of some of the 

          20   historical -- more significant historical artifacts so 

          21   that in the event something untoward occurs, a fire or 

          22   whatever, we have for your file measured drawings that 

          23   were done by the Department of Architecture at the 

          24   University of Houston with their interns, so it's a 

          25   significant document. 


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           1                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Great.  Yes, it is. 

           2                  MR. COMMANDER:  I've been authorized to 

           3   say, also, Madame Chairman, that -- and Board members, the 

           4   Lone Star Legacy is a marvelous effort that you folks have 

           5   instituted.  My friend, Brother Jim here, tells me that if 

           6   you come to Washington-on-the-Brazos as a Board -- you can 

           7   come down there and meet informally if you like, the 

           8   Washington-on-the-Brazos Park Association is prepared to 

           9   contribute $25,000 to the Lone Star Legacy fund.   

          10             Now, as an added incentive, if you come and 

          11   spend the night and we will fix dinner for you and Jim's a 

          12   marvelous cook.  We'll fix dinner for you, you can stay in 

          13   the best B and Bs in Washington County, we'll take care of 

          14   you.  If you do that, two things will be triggered.  One 

          15   is we'll up that $25,000 to $50,000, one.  Secondly, if 

          16   you come in on an airplane into the Brenham International 

          17   Airport, we're prepared to send either a stretch pickup 

          18   for you or -- or we'll send Willie and Waylon.  Thank you 

          19   so much. 

          20                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I think you got a deal.   

          21                  (Applause.) 

          22                  MR. SANSOM:  Thanks. 

          23                  MR. COMMANDER:  Parenthetically, quickly, 

          24   as time moves along, the TORCH is passed always.  We've 

          25   experienced that.  And I want to say just in a quick 


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           1   moment, Andy, God bless you and thank you for all your 

           2   help. 

           3                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, Allen.   

           4                  (Applause.) 

           5                  MR. SANSOM:  Madame Chairman, at this time 

           6   if you'll permit me, I guess what I would like to ask you 

           7   as -- as -- as a courtesy in this last Commission meeting 

           8   of mine, to a allow me to exercise a prerogative of the 

           9   Executive Director and make a couple of presentations. 

          10             As all of you know, we have the most meaningful 

          11   employee recognition program in the United States and it 

          12   is, each August we present to our exemplary employees 

          13   tokens of the esteem that we have for them in recognition 

          14   for their service. 

          15             This past week, thanks to your efforts, Madame 

          16   Chairman, and Harold Stone and Lydia Saldana and many, 

          17   many others, the Parks and Wildlife Department has passed 

          18   a huge threshold.  We will now have over $100 million to 

          19   work with to complete our backlog of critical maintenance 

          20   repairs.  And that effort did not result without 

          21   leadership.  And so I would like to ask your indulgence as 

          22   we watch a video for the employee recognition award for 

          23   leadership. 

          24                  (Videotape played.) 

          25                  (Applause.) 


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           1                  MR. SANSOM:  Now, you can imagine what it 

           2   was to get a video done without her knowing about it.  

           3   Lydia also receives, as all employee recognition award 

           4   winners do some leave and a check for $500.  She likes to 

           5   go shopping. 

           6                  MS. SALDANA:  Which I'm donating to Lone 

           7   Star Legacy. 

           8                  MR. SANSOM:  All right.   

           9                  (Applause.) 

          10                  MR. SANSOM:  Along with leadership members, 

          11   the other attribute that I think we feel most proud of 

          12   here in our culture is customer service.  This Department 

          13   is known for many things and it receives accolades for 

          14   many accomplishments.  But the one most often heard 

          15   comment and the one most appreciated is that we treat the 

          16   people of our State and anybody who uses our facilities, 

          17   who hunts and fishes or hikes or camps or bird watches in 

          18   Texas as customers.  And so at this time I would like for 

          19   you to join me as we recognize the second and last 

          20   employee recognition award winner today for customer 

          21   service.   

          22                  (Videotaped played.) 

          23                  MR. SANSOM:  For customer service, it's 

          24   Michelle Klaus.  

          25                  (Applause.) 


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           1                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, Members.  Thank you 

           2   very much.  I would just like to say, Madame Chairman, 

           3   that those videos would not have been possible without 

           4   Mark Southern, and Mark Southern is leaving.  He's going 

           5   to Washington, D.C.  And we -- he has been probably the 

           6   guy who is most responsible for this wonderful craft of 

           7   video that has been such a part of the last 11 years.  So, 

           8   Mark, good luck to you.   

           9                  (Applause.) 

          10                  MR. SANSOM:  That photograph was made by 

          11   Commissioner Angelo.  Thanks, Mark.  Thank you. 

          12                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I'm going to exercise my 

          13   prerogative as Chairman of the Texas Parks and Wildlife 

          14   Commission to say a few words.  Few people, I think, in 

          15   this world are blessed with the ability to put to words 

          16   what they feel in their heart.  I don't think anybody I 

          17   know that knows Andy Sansom will deny that he is blessed 

          18   with that -- that wonderful talent.  And I don't pretend 

          19   to have it.  So without further ado, I will make my 

          20   presentation. 

          21             Andrew Sansom started with Texas Parks and 

          22   Wildlife on December 1st of 1987.  He was a member -- 

          23   worked in the Land Conservation Group.  He became 

          24   Executive Director in August -- on August 1, 1990.  The 

          25   acquisition of the 300,000-acre Big Bend Ranch State Park 


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           1   in 1989 set the tone for the tenure marked by ambitious 

           2   endeavors.  Since 1990, Texas Parks and Wildlife has 

           3   opened or expanded dozens of State Parks and Wildlife 

           4   management areas, including Government Canyon near San 

           5   Antonio and the String Fellow Wildlife Management area, 

           6   Austin Woods on the coast. 

           7             Under Andy Sansom's leadership Texas Parks and 

           8   Wildlife reduced its reliance on general tax revenue in 

           9   favor of more entrepreneurial self-funded approach.  He 

          10   was instrumental in the creation of the private non-profit 

          11   Parks and Wildlife Foundation of Texas, Inc. and since 

          12   1992 the Foundation has secured more than $30 million in 

          13   private donations to support Texas conservation.  The 

          14   Foundation today leads the Lone Star Legacy campaign to 

          15   fund new facilities and permanently endow all Texas Parks 

          16   and Wildlife sites. 

          17             Andy Sansom has been a strong advocate for 

          18   private land stewardship, realizing that about 94 percent 

          19   of the State landscape is in private hands.  As a result 

          20   more than 12 million acres of Texas land, mostly rural 

          21   farms and ranches is now operated under some form of 

          22   wildlife management plan. 

          23             Public education has been a priority for 

          24   Mr. Sansom.  During the 1990s, he led the creation of the 

          25   Sea Center Texas in Lake Jackson and the Texas Freshwater 


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           1   Fishery Center in Athens.  The two state of the art fish 

           2   hatcheries combined for the first time fisheries 

           3   production and research facilities with museum exhibits, 

           4   aquaria, kids fishing ponds and touch tanks.  He has also 

           5   supervised creation of the free family oriented Texas 

           6   Wildlife Expo, which this year celebrated its tenth 

           7   anniversary.  The Expo has become a national model for 

           8   other states.  Sansom worked to bring the great outdoors 

           9   into the big city. 

          10             Throughout the 1990s, Andy Sansom has battled to 

          11   care for an aging State Parks system that needed expensive 

          12   repairs.  He successfully worked with several governors 

          13   and legislators to secure relief including $60 million in 

          14   revenue bond authority to repair parks and the passage 

          15   this week that will inject another $100 million in revenue 

          16   bond authority.  And I want to make a -- a special comment 

          17   here about that.  Andy Sansom said to me in August that he 

          18   wanted to focus his energies on the passing of $100 

          19   million bond proposition, that he could not see the future 

          20   of Parks and Wildlife as being secure without the 

          21   successful passage of Proposition 8.  He has led the 

          22   charge and with the help of Lydia Saldana and others, we 

          23   can take a victory lap today.  And that legacy of that 

          24   $100 million will be with us for many, many years, when we 

          25   are no longer here.  We will remember that today we 


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           1   celebrate that successful endeavor and a large measure of 

           2   the credit, a very large measure, goes to Mr. Sansom. 

           3             I would like to take this opportunity to ask 

           4   each of the Commissioners to contribute something by 

           5   saying a few words.  And so I would like to start with -- 

           6   we'll do seniority here, if that's okay.  Ernie, you've 

           7   known Andy and he's been a dear friend of yours for many 

           8   years, long before you came on the Commission, Mr. Angelo 

           9   was your friend, Andy.  And I think Ernie would like to 

          10   say a few words.  And after that, I would like Mr. Avila 

          11   to say a few words. 

          12                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Well, Andy, I certainly 

          13   did enjoy our friendship before coming on the Commission.  

          14   But to have worked with you and had the pleasure and honor 

          15   to do that for the last four-and-a-half years has been a 

          16   tremendous privilege for me.  It's something that I've 

          17   enjoyed greatly.  I don't think there's any question but 

          18   what the things that the Chairman has mentioned that you 

          19   have done for Parks and Wildlife and for the State of 

          20   Texas will be remembered for many, many years and be 

          21   something that the people of Texas will always be grateful 

          22   for.  And certainly, I'm grateful for it.  And thank you 

          23   for all that you've done for Texas and Parks and Wildlife. 

          24                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Well, as you all know, 

          25   Andy is -- is one of those unique individuals in life that 


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           1   after you've met him for one day, you've felt like you've 

           2   known him all of your life.  So when I came on the 

           3   Commission, I -- I experienced that absorption into this 

           4   culture that many of you had already been enjoying for 

           5   many, many years.  So it has been just an absolute 

           6   wonderful experience for me to -- to know Andy and -- and 

           7   that will continue as -- as once you're a friend of his, 

           8   you're a friend for life.  And Jane loves you dearly, as 

           9   well.  And I will stay always in touch.  Thank you, Andy. 

          10                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Upon meeting Andy, I 

          11   knew immediately that I had met a very nice guy and a 

          12   dedicated public servant.  As I have come to know him and 

          13   work with him, I realize that largely through his 

          14   influence, I was being transformed.  I always considered 

          15   myself to be an outdoorsman, but I found myself becoming a 

          16   conservationist.  I recognized an even more important 

          17   development; that is, Andy and I were becoming friends.  

          18   Today we are colleagues and friends.  Thanks, Andy. 

          19   Although the TPWD relationship will change, the friendship 

          20   will continue always.  I will look forward to you coming 

          21   back to East Fork and we'll sit on the patio and enjoy the 

          22   beautiful East Texas scenery, solve the problems of the 

          23   world and rekindle the friendship.  Go in God, my friend.  

          24   Thank you. 

          25                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Joseph. 


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           1                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Thank you, Madame 

           2   Chair.  

           3             Andy, I was thinking about this this morning on 

           4   my way over here, and I thought, you know, when we first 

           5   met it was because we disagreed about an issue.  And I 

           6   can't even remember what that issue was now.  The 

           7   important thing I came away with was that I was dealing 

           8   with a man with an absolutely unquestionable, unshakeable 

           9   commitment to the natural resources of Texas.  And 

          10   whatever little issue that was we -- we disagreed on is 

          11   long past, and I've worked with you now, I guess, 12 years 

          12   before I came on the Commission.  And you've left a great 

          13   legacy.  You've been a great friend to me and to my 

          14   family.  But especially I've got to say to the employees 

          15   of this Department, we've been very lucky to have him.  

          16   And you leave a great, great legacy.  Thank you, Andy. 

          17                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Andy, I would 

          18   like to take the opportunity to thank you personally for 

          19   all you've done to help me get up to speed.  I'm new here 

          20   and I can't speak with the same experience the others 

          21   have.  But I can say that I think one mark of a great 

          22   leader is to look at what's happened under their term of 

          23   leadership.  You're great at giving credit, building a 

          24   team, recognizing achievement.  I think it's very clear 

          25   you've fostered an environment where extraordinary things 


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           1   have happened during your tenure.  And I think that should 

           2   be -- I trust it will be a long-standing source of 

           3   satisfaction and pride for you.  Rather than look back, I 

           4   would like to look forward for a second because I hope for 

           5   Texas' sake that you stay in the conservation arena, stay 

           6   involved in this great enterprise that we're all a part of 

           7   and that we have the opportunity to work together, because 

           8   I believe we will, and I think many great things lie ahead 

           9   for you.  I want to do everything I can to help you 

          10   succeed personally and to succeed in conjunction with the 

          11   rest of us in accomplishing the goals that you have worked 

          12   so hard and dedicated your so much of your life towards.  

          13   Congratulations and look forward to another great ten 

          14   years of working with you. 

          15                  MR. SANSOM:  Thanks, Phil. 

          16                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Well, Andy, I'm the 

          17   rookie.  And I echo all of the comments that every one's 

          18   made.  It seems that I've known you for years, and I 

          19   actually have only known you for 60 days.  But I 

          20   immediately recognize that you have a passion for your 

          21   work.  You're a visionary.  You've taken Parks and 

          22   Wildlife to the highest level possible, and it's going to 

          23   be very challenging for us to -- to go from that level to 

          24   a higher level.  It's going to be very hard to fill your 

          25   shoes.  I'm very sensitive to the youth and on behalf of 


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           1   the youth of the State, I thank you for everything that 

           2   you've done.  And I know that you're going to do great 

           3   things in the future.  And this is merely another chapter 

           4   in your life, and I wish you nothing but the best.  And 

           5   I'll always be your friend and I know that you will be my 

           6   friend.  Thank you, Andy. 

           7                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  For 11-and-a-half years of 

           8   service, a standing ovation for Andy Sansom. 

           9                  (Standing ovation, applause.) 

          10                  MR. SANSOM:  We need to get on with this 

          11   meeting.  I -- and be careful what you ask for, Phil.  

          12   I -- it is I who should be thanking each of you, not only 

          13   the Members of the Board, each of whom are my friends as 

          14   well as my supervisors, but the staff.  And I thank you 

          15   for the greatest privilege of my life.  I will -- I do 

          16   believe that you will move to the next level here and 

          17   times will be better.  I believe that I will go on and 

          18   have another exciting chapter in my life.  But I will 

          19   never forget the relationships that I have here.  My 

          20   attitude is very positive and exciting.  My heart is full, 

          21   and I'm looking forward as -- as John Avila and others 

          22   have said to a new chapter in my life.  But I am very sad 

          23   about leaving you all. 

          24             And something that Al said is something that I 

          25   would like to say to each of you, and that is that we've 


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           1   done some wonderful things here together.  Mainly, you 

           2   have done it, but I will always be grateful to Texas Parks 

           3   and Wildlife for providing the opportunity for me to work 

           4   with each of you.  Thank you very much.   

           5                  (Applause.) 

           6   AGENDA ITEM NO. 1:  ACTION - APPROVAL OF AGENDA 

           7                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Our first order of 

           8   business is approval of the agenda.  Could I have a 

           9   motion? 

          10                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  I so move, Madame 

          11   Chairman. 

          12                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Second. 

          13                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?   

          14                  ("Aye") 

          15   AGENDA ITEM NO. 2:  BRIEFING - TENTH ANNIVERSARY TEXAS 

          16   WILDLIFE EXPO WRAP-UP  

          17                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Our second order of 

          18   business is a briefing by Ernie Gammage on the Tenth 

          19   Anniversary of the Texas Wildlife Expo.   

          20                  (Whereupon a briefing was presented to the 

          21                  Commission, the following proceedings were 

          22                  heard:) 

          23   AGENDA ITEM NO. 3:  ACTION - 2001-2002 STATEWIDE HUNTING 

          24   AND FISHING PROCLAMATION CLOSED SEASON FOR THE USE OF CRAB 

          25   TRAPS 


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           1                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next item on the agenda is 

           2   an action item, Closed Season for Crab Traps in Texas 

           3   Coastal Waters.  Hal Osburn will present. 

           4     

           5                  MR. OSBURN:  Thank you Madame Chairman, 

           6   Commissioners.  I'm Hal Osburn, Coastal Fisheries Division 

           7   Director.  I would like to present to you for final action 

           8   proposed rule changes for the crab trap fishery.  These 

           9   rules are primarily intended to address the problem of 

          10   lost or abandoned traps.  And we do know that we have tens 

          11   of thousands of traps out there that continue to cause 

          12   concerns for our stakeholders. 

          13             To aid the department with this program, the -- 

          14   the legislature provided new authority for the Commission.  

          15   They can now establish a 10- to 30-day closure of the trap 

          16   fishery during which volunteers can aid in trap removal. 

          17             We worked with the finfish and crab fisherman 

          18   industries this summer and earlier in the spring when the 

          19   Legislature was developing the statute, and we developed a 

          20   consensus on how this program should be structured.  And 

          21   the proposals consist of a 16-day coast-wide prohibition 

          22   of all crab traps.  And the way that this will work is 

          23   during the first seven days of the closure, only game 

          24   wardens will be legally allowed to remove the abandoned 

          25   traps.  But during the last nine days, abandoned traps are 


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           1   defined as litter and can be removed by anyone.  But they 

           2   will not be allowed to be placed back in the water by 

           3   anyone, because once something becomes litter, it cannot 

           4   be returned to the water.  That was an important 

           5   consideration for industry members that their traps 

           6   wouldn't be taken and then used by someone else and we 

           7   were able to accommodate that. 

           8             Staff also concurs with the crab industry 

           9   members in their request to delete the 30-day dating 

          10   requirement on the trap gear tag.  This will increase 

          11   their efficiency but it should not effect our conservation 

          12   efforts.  The Department held six public hearings on the 

          13   coast on this issue and we had fairly light input.  Did 

          14   have 23 people attend.  There was widespread support for a 

          15   closure.  The majority of comments that we received did 

          16   favor shortening the closure to the minimum of ten days to 

          17   reduce the disruption of the fresh crab markets.  We had a 

          18   vast majority of the comments in favor of the gear tag 

          19   date requirement.  After reviewing these comments, staff 

          20   continues to recommend the originally proposed rule 

          21   changes.  We believe that an effective clean up during the 

          22   first year will require the 16-day closure which will 

          23   provide us two full weekends for volunteer efforts. 

          24             We have already begun advanced planning for the 

          25   clean-up program and we anticipate hundreds of volunteers 


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           1   to participate in this effort.  We're very pleased about 

           2   that. 

           3             That concludes my presentation.  There is a 

           4   recommendation for your consideration for adoption of 

           5   the -- of the proclamation.  And I believe you may have 

           6   some public comments. 

           7                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We have two people that 

           8   signed up to speak on this issue, Robert Chandler and John 

           9   Jefferson. 

          10                  MR.  CHANDLER:  I'm Robert Chandler from 

          11   Aransas County, and I would like to congratulate you all.  

          12   We've worked real hard with Hal Osburn and his staff, and 

          13   I would like to congratulate these people, because they've 

          14   done better than their job.  And as a crabber and a member 

          15   of the review board, as a crabber and as a member of the 

          16   Finfish Advisory Review Board, we've worked real closely 

          17   with these people.  And their days, 17 days, 16 days is 

          18   what we're going to have to have.  I don't think we can do 

          19   it in ten days.  But I think, like I've said, we've all 

          20   work real hard and these guys have worked real diligently.  

          21   I have nothing but praise for them, and I really 

          22   appreciate you all passing this.  Thank you. 

          23                  MR. JEFFERSON:  Morning, Madame Chairman, 

          24   members of Commission, Mr. Sergeant-at-Arms Sansom.  

          25   Mr. Sansom, you may find me just a little bit out of order 


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           1   this morning, since my comments don't pertain to exactly 

           2   to crabs.  But on behalf -- I'm Executive Director of the 

           3   Texas Chapter of the Wildlife Society.  On behalf of the 

           4   Texas Chapter and me personally, I just want to thank you 

           5   for all you've done for Wildlife conservation in Texas.  

           6   Thank you, Andy.  We appreciate you and we look forward 

           7   with great excitement over your future contributions to 

           8   wildlife.  And please don't attach any significance to the 

           9   fact that I did this under a crab item.  Thank you. 

          10                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, John. 

          11                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there any questions of 

          12   Hal or any further discussion? 

          13                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  I move approval of the 

          14   recommendation. 

          15                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Second. 

          16                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?   

          17                  ("Aye") 

          18                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Opposed?  Motion carries. 

          19   "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts amendments 

          20   to 31 TAC Sec. 65.3 and Sec. 65.78 (located in Exhibit A), 

          21   concerning Definitions and Crabs and Ghost Shrimp as 

          22   published in the October 5, 2001 issues of the Texas 

          23   Register (26 TexReg 7808)." 

          24   AGENDA ITEM 4:  ACTION - CHAPTER 58 RULE REVIEW AND 

          25   STATEWIDE SHRIMP FISHERY PROCLAMATION REVIEW 


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           1                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next item is also an 

           2   action item, Chapter 58 Rule Review and Statewide Shrimp 

           3   Fishery Proclamation Review, also Hal Osburn presenting. 

           4                  MR. OSBURN:  Madame Chair, Commissioners, 

           5   I'm Hal Osburn, Coastal Fisheries Division Director.  I 

           6   would like to present to you for final action 

           7   legislatively mandated rule review for portions of Chapter 

           8   58 in our proclamations as well as clean-up items in the 

           9   shrimp proclamation.  This Chapter 58 Rule Review deals 

          10   with the shrimp, crab and finfish Subchapters B, C, and D.  

          11   We did not receive any comments on subchapters -- 

          12   Subchapters C and D.  And therefore, it is staff's 

          13   recommendations that those subchapters be readopted 

          14   without change.  There is a continuing conservation need 

          15   for these management measures on our public resources. 

          16             Staff does propose some minor changes to 

          17   Subchapter B dealing with shrimp.  These changes are 

          18   restricted to housekeeping measures and clarification of 

          19   original Commission intent.  They also address some of the 

          20   industry comments and requests that you heard at your 

          21   Commission meeting at the Public Hearing in August. 

          22             Highlights of these changes include allowance of 

          23   a try-net in the seabob fishery.  Clarification of the 

          24   bait bay boundary in West Bay.  We would also like to 

          25   modify the buy/catch reduction device and Turtle Excluder 


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           1   Device requirements to better match the Federal rules and 

           2   to conform with industry standards that we've identified.  

           3   An exemption of the BRD and TED use would be established 

           4   based on a concurrent exemption of TEDS by the National 

           5   Marine Fishery Service.  If -- if they do take that 

           6   action, that would allow us to have quick compliance with 

           7   their rules and benefit the industry. 

           8             These proposals were, of course, announced in 

           9   the Texas Register.  We distributed them to a wide set of 

          10   our fishery -- fishery resource stakeholders that we 

          11   identified.  We -- we did not receive too many comments.  

          12   We did have two that were in support of the changes.  We 

          13   also had some requests to liberalize the shrimp net rule 

          14   requirements in the gulf.  I wanted to tell you that 

          15   the -- this morning, we did receive letters from 

          16   Representative Tom Uher from Bay City and Matagorda County 

          17   Commissioner George DeSoto.  They also requested 

          18   additional review regarding liberalization of the 

          19   definition of gulf nets and we would certainly intend on 

          20   doing that prior to any new rule making.  We think that 

          21   that -- that there is some areas that we can clarify along 

          22   with a review of the -- the other rules that we are 

          23   basically studying in our comprehensive study.  We, 

          24   therefore, would recommend readoption of Subchapter B with 

          25   the amendments as proposed.   


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           1             And -- in regards to further liberalizations or 

           2   restrictions of the fishery at this time, we think that 

           3   that would conflict with provisions in the House Bill 305 

           4   which mandates that we complete a shrimp fishery study 

           5   prior to September of 2002 and that that be done before 

           6   new rule initiatives are carried out.  That concludes my 

           7   presentation.  There is the motion that would be relevant 

           8   to -- to adopt in this proclamation. 

           9                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Hal.  We have 

          10   some comments.  Ellis Gilleland and next is Muriel Tipps. 

          11                  MR. GILLELAND:  My name is Ellis Gilleland.  

          12   I'm representing Texas Animals, which is Internet animal 

          13   rights organization.  I've given you a handout which is 

          14   the Texas Register for October the 5th, 2001, Page 7803 

          15   and 7804.  And I don't believe in my -- what I'm concerned 

          16   about is the exemptions, the loopholes that you're going 

          17   to put into the Turtle Excluder Devices and the buy/catch 

          18   restriction devices.  They're actually building in two 

          19   loopholes that do not now exist.  I do not believe that in 

          20   my lifetime, these people will take the last shrimp.  I do 

          21   believe in your lifetime they will take the last shrimp.  

          22   And so what I'm here today is to try to enlist your help 

          23   in stopping them from taking the last turtle.  And if 

          24   you're ever seen a freight train moving underwater in slow 

          25   motion, you would appreciate the majestic beauty and 


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           1   intrinsic worth of these animals. 

           2             The two exemptions that you're building in and 

           3   I've given a copy of the Federal regulation.  If you 

           4   effect this, this means that somebody is going to put a 

           5   55-minute limit on the net.  Who is going to be out on 

           6   seven or eight miles in the Gulf of Mexico two o'clock in 

           7   the morning with a stop watch and measure, 55 minutes?  In 

           8   other words, you're saying they can take out the Turtle 

           9   Excluder Device as long as they only dip their net for 55 

          10   minutes. 

          11             If you turn over to 7804 you'll see the 

          12   buy/catch reduction device is predicated on what the TED 

          13   requirement is which it says "impractical, there's no 

          14   correlation between the TED and the BRD."  I don't know if 

          15   that's a typographical error or not.  If you look at the 

          16   Turtle Excluder Device, you see there is a correlation 

          17   between the intoxicated TED requirement and the TED 

          18   requirement shall be subject to limitations of National 

          19   Marine. 

          20             You and Andy and everybody else deliberately 

          21   avoided what National Marine said about red snapper.  You 

          22   continued to let them take them, take them, take them, 

          23   take them.  The Federal government stopped taking red 

          24   snapper beyond nine miles.  Between here and nine miles, 

          25   y'all just took all the red snappers they could scarf up.  


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           1   What I'm telling you is apply your own -- the same logic 

           2   and apply your own rules within the nine miles to protect 

           3   these turtles and don't go sucking after a Federal 

           4   regulations because it gives you a loophole.  You cannot 

           5   be out there in time.  Your people do not have the boats.  

           6   You have to have a stop watch and time these people at 55 

           7   minutes on dipping they're TED nets.  Please protect the 

           8   turtles.  Thank you. 

           9                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Hal, would you like to 

          10   address Mr. Gilleland's comments, please? 

          11                  MR. OSBURN:  Yes, ma'am.  The -- the 

          12   National Marine Fishery Service mandates the Turtle 

          13   Excluder Device based on their authority with the 

          14   Endangered Species Act.  There have been only a couple of 

          15   on occasions where they have allowed an exemption to the 

          16   TED use, basically allowed the shrimpers to either take 

          17   the TED out or to sew it up and replace that protection 

          18   with a tow-time requirement.  All of those exemptions have 

          19   happened in the bay waters, not out in the gulf waters.  

          20   The reason that they have generally occurred is huge 

          21   amounts of debris that come down into the bays from the 

          22   rivers after a flood.  In one case we had an abnormal 

          23   growth of a -- of a bay organism, bryozoans, that 

          24   basically clogged up the nets and the TEDs and prevented 

          25   them from working effectively.  Anyhow, those occurred in 


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           1   the bays.  The National Marine Fishery Service comes and 

           2   conducts a survey to ascertain whether those conditions 

           3   warrant that exemption.  They place a -- generally a 

           4   30-day exemption on it.  When that happens, obviously, TED 

           5   rules that are adopted by the State would be 

           6   counterproductive if we required them to have TEDs at the 

           7   same time that the National Marine Fishery Service did 

           8   not.  So we intended on just having a mechanism in place 

           9   that would match them. 

          10             In regard to the BRD, there is not a 

          11   typographical error.  That language is correct.  The 

          12   reference there is that the National Marine Fishery 

          13   Service does not require BRDs in State waters.  Their 

          14   rules for BRDs only applied to federal waters.  So when we 

          15   adopted the BRD requirement, there was no countermeasure 

          16   in federal requirements.  So there would be no exemption 

          17   that the -- that the Federal people would establish for 

          18   BRDs, because they don't have a BRD rule. 

          19             When there is clogging events in the bays that 

          20   effect TEDs, they will do the same thing to the BRDs.  

          21   They will also clog them up.  And so we felt like it was 

          22   practical that when the conditions warranted to clog up a 

          23   TED, that we should also go ahead and exempt our BRDs.  

          24   And the best way to do that was to tie them both together. 

          25                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do you have any comments 


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           1   in regard to the red snapper comments that Mr. Gilleland 

           2   made? 

           3                  MR. OSBURN:  I may have been jotting some 

           4   notes down on the red snapper comment.  Could you refresh 

           5   my memory? 

           6                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Well, I think the 

           7   implication was that we were going beyond what the Federal 

           8   regulations or not adhering or using the limits set by the 

           9   Federal regulations.  And I think his words were scarfing 

          10   up every red snapper.  I would like you to address that, 

          11   if you can. 

          12                  MR. OSBURN:  Yes, ma'am.  The red snapper 

          13   issue is a large commercial and recreational fishery in 

          14   the gulf.  About 95 percent of the fish are harvested in 

          15   Federal waters.  Our rules really don't affect the -- the 

          16   snapper harvest very much. 

          17             We have been in disagreement with the Federal 

          18   managers on some of the management strategies for red 

          19   snapper.  We have had closures for the last three or four 

          20   years on -- on our recreational fishery which continues to 

          21   promulgate some serious social and economic concerns on 

          22   the coast.  We have had a Derby fishery in the commercial 

          23   arena that has created safety concerns and conflicts.  And 

          24   we -- we are basically lobbying for a change in that 

          25   strategy.  While we -- while we attempt to succeed at 


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           1   that, we have maintained a consistency in our rules which 

           2   is a very restrictive, actually even more restrictive than 

           3   the Federal rules, because both commercial and 

           4   recreational are restricted to four red snapper a day with 

           5   15-inch size limit.  So we actually think we have more 

           6   restrictive rules in State waters, bit it's more a 

           7   symbolic gesture.  We are in agreement that there are some 

           8   changes needed in the Federal rules. 

           9                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Muriel Tipps. 

          10                  MS. TIPPS:  Yes, ma'am.  Madame Chairman, 

          11   I'm sort of here on a dual role today.  First of all, 

          12   we -- as spokesman for Matagorda County today, we would 

          13   like to thank Andy for his open door policy for the last 

          14   10 or 11 years.  And we'll -- we'll miss that rapport.  

          15   He's done a great job, and historically we've done a lot 

          16   of work.  And for everything from when I was real young to 

          17   open bay spoilage to recreational to commercial, we've 

          18   made great strides.  So we thank him from our area, and 

          19   we're sort of greedy.  He'll be coming home.  His home is 

          20   our home.  So we hope to still continue to see him. 

          21             And gentlemen, we are almost there with our 

          22   shrimp regulations.  There are just a few items that are 

          23   still of concern to Matagorda County.  And I would like to 

          24   read Mr. Uher's letter.  "Upon correspondence with Muriel 

          25   Tipps, Matagorda County seafood rep, has informed me of 


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           1   the possible problem with implementation of the new shrimp 

           2   fishery regulations.  One important issue raised by 

           3   Mrs. Tipps was the net size restrictions within the new 

           4   three nautical mile shrimping zone.  Concern has been 

           5   raised regarding TPMW's interpretation of net measurement.  

           6   By TMPW considering a dummy door as an add-on, creates a 

           7   problem with the measurement of a twin trawl.  Many shrimp 

           8   fisherman utilize the twin trawl shrimp array which is 

           9   like a skid and feel they are being discriminated against 

          10   by having the measurement of the head rope length being 

          11   included with this gear type.  It appears that the vessel 

          12   deploying a traditional double trawls from an outrigger 

          13   can utilize two nets up to 65 feet.  However, a vessel 

          14   using a single twin trawl from the stern is only allocated 

          15   32.5 feet each and cannot exceed the 65-foot maximum when 

          16   pulling two trawls.  Please review interpretation of the 

          17   dummy door from add-on to that of the regular trawl door.  

          18   If you have any questions, please feel free to contact 

          19   me." 

          20             Also, of concern is if we look through the -- 

          21   the original rule books, the main intent of the three-mile 

          22   restriction was 130 feet as measured along the court line 

          23   from board to board or between extremes of any other 

          24   spreading device if only one trawl is being used.  We 

          25   assumed that, of course, if you were pulling two trawls 


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           1   the maximum would be 65-foot for two trawls.  And if you 

           2   were pulling a single rig, anything under that would be 

           3   acceptable.  And many boats worked all season with this in 

           4   mind.  And nowhere in the Texas Register does that 

           5   reflect.  And so these are not new shrimp initiatives.  

           6   These would require a new definition for a skid or a dummy 

           7   door and then a table added to reflect what the -- the 

           8   dimension -- the total dimensions would be with pulling a 

           9   single rig. 

          10             And with that, we feel this regulation package 

          11   would be viable and nondiscriminatory.  In our area, we're 

          12   not just fleet oriented.  We have all kind of boats.  We 

          13   have little boats, medium boats, large boats and then the 

          14   super trawlers, so we need to make sure that the rules 

          15   made are for everyone. 

          16             Any questions? 

          17                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you. 

          18                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, Muriel. 

          19                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there any questions or 

          20   discussions that you would like to have with Hal? 

          21                  MR. OSBURN:  Would you like to me to 

          22   respond to some of those comments? 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Sure. 

          24                  MR. OSBURN:  I would like to thank 

          25   Ms. Tipps for being here.  She's been a very able 


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           1   representative of the Matagorda County folks.  The rules 

           2   that establish the two nets in the gulf was part of the 

           3   regulatory package adopted last summer.  It -- it was 

           4   originally in the -- in the -- in the May Texas Register 

           5   proposed items very clear that we were talking about no 

           6   one net could be more than 65 feet as -- as is defined to 

           7   be measured.  We did not receive any comments during last 

           8   summer's process on this.  And, therefore, it -- it was 

           9   passed as part of the August package without modification. 

          10             The -- some folks in the industry obviously have 

          11   identified their confusion about that.  At this point, we 

          12   think there is room to discuss that and it would take some 

          13   definitional changes.  We have had some folks identify, 

          14   quite frankly, how they might abuse that rule with the 

          15   suggestion, straightforward suggestion that Ms. Tipps 

          16   makes.  I know that's not -- that's not her intent and 

          17   therefore, we think that -- that we would need to work 

          18   with those industry members, with law enforcement, and get 

          19   the right words, because these are things that we measure 

          20   out there, that the law enforcement folks measure.  And 

          21   you probably heard a lot of terms there.  We've got -- if 

          22   we can get those definitions in agreement, because we do 

          23   not want to discriminate any historical participants, but 

          24   the objective was to reduce effort in that near shore 

          25   zone.  I think that that's being accomplished and we have 


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           1   received some positive indications on those rule changes.  

           2   But we would suggest that for this particular rule 

           3   package, we're not prepared to offer you language that 

           4   would -- we would be comfortable with or that I don't 

           5   believe law enforcement would be comfortable with.  But we 

           6   will maintain and start immediately a relationship to -- 

           7   to look for those wordings. 

           8                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any questions 

           9   of Hal or further discussion?  If not, do I have a motion? 

          10                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Motion. 

          11                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Second. 

          12                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?   

          13                  ("Aye") 

          14                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Opposed?  Motion carries. 

          15   "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts within 31 

          16   TAC Chapter 58 amendments to Sec. 58.102, Sections 

          17   58-160-58.163, and Section 58.165 (located in Exhibit A), 

          18   concerning Statewide Shrimp Fishery Proclamation; and 

          19   re-adoption of all other sections within Subchapters B, C, 

          20   and D in this chapter." 

          21   AGENDA ITEM NO. 5:  BRIEFING - UPDATE ON STATE PARK SYSTEM 

          22                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next item is a briefing 

          23   item, Update on State Park System by Walt Dabney.   

          24                  (Whereupon a briefing was presented to the 

          25                  Commission, the following proceedings were 


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           1                  heard:) 

           2   AGENDA ITEM NO. 6:  BRIEFING - BISON HERD 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next we have a briefing on 

           4   bison herd by Danny Swepston. 

           5                  (Whereupon a briefing was presented to the 

           6                  Commission, the following proceedings were 

           7                  heard:) 

           8   AGENDA ITEM NO. 7:  ACTION - FLOATING CABIN PROCLAMATION 

           9                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Item 7 is as an action 

          10   item, Floating Cabins with a presentation by Dennis 

          11   Johnson. 

          12                  MR. JOHNSTON:  Thank you, Madame Chairman, 

          13   members of the Commission.  My name is Dennis Johnson.  

          14   I'm chief of Marine Enforcement.  I would like to present 

          15   to you today the proposed regulations on floating cabins 

          16   for final adoption.  The 77th Legislature through Senate 

          17   Bill 1573 delegated to TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION 

          18   the authority to regulate floating cabins moored in 

          19   Coastal water.  Statutory requirements for the issue of 

          20   permits include eligibility, application requirements, 

          21   fees, criminal and civil penalties, location restrictions, 

          22   and a cabin removal process.  Senate Bill 1573 provided 

          23   regulatory authority to Texas Parks and Wildlife for 

          24   implementation of this program. 

          25             Proposed regulations to implement this program 


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           1   are published in the Texas Register for public comment on 

           2   October the 5th, 2001.  Two public meetings were attended 

           3   by 93 persons and additional comments were taken on the 

           4   Web page.  Comments on the proposals were generally 

           5   positive towards our proposed regulations with comments 

           6   and minor changes -- what I would consider minor changes 

           7   to those proposals.  These comments have been incorporated 

           8   in the proposed regulations. 

           9             Proposed language in 31 TAC 55.200 floating 

          10   cabins will establish an annual permit period from 

          11   September 1 through August 31.  The renewal will require 

          12   an application and renewal within 90 days of expiration.  

          13   Rules will require notification of the Department prior to 

          14   the sale of the cabin and an application to be filed by 

          15   the purchaser of that floating cabin.  We have established 

          16   a relocation process to include a Department application 

          17   and requirement to restrict the location to two times per 

          18   year except upon show of acceptable cause to the 

          19   Department. 

          20             Cabin owners may remove floating cabins from 

          21   Coastal waters for repairs and they may relocate upon 

          22   threat of natural disaster.   

          23             Some of the comments from the public meetings 

          24   were that they wanted to be assured that they could move 

          25   them during the time or threat of natural disaster.  So 


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           1   we -- we clarified that in the rules to make sure.  And 

           2   that was our intent from the beginning that they be able 

           3   to do that without notifying us. 

           4             We will restrict floating cabins from relocating 

           5   within 500 feet of a floating cabin or structure permitted 

           6   by the Natural Resource Commission under Chapter 33 and 

           7   not within 250 feet from a pipeline.  This is a change 

           8   from the original proposal which was 1,000 feet distance 

           9   between floating cabins.  The comment from the public 

          10   seemed to be that they felt like that was overly 

          11   restrictive.  They felt like there should be some 

          12   difference -- some restrictions in -- in where they could 

          13   relocate to for privacy reasons.  And that -- but they 

          14   also felt that 1,000 feet in some areas would overly 

          15   restrict them and may force them to have to be in areas 

          16   that were possibly a detriment to navigation and some 

          17   other things.  So we did make that change. 

          18             Marketing requirements will consist of a permit 

          19   number with a prefix FC followed by a three-digit permit 

          20   number and a validation sticker on two opposite sides of 

          21   the cabin.  For safety purposes we require an orange 

          22   reflector measuring three inches to be mounted on each end 

          23   of each side of the cabin for a total of eight reflectors.  

          24   This was a change from the original proposal.  The 

          25   original proposal asked for a red or orange reflector and 


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           1   nine square inches, which would be three inches by 

           2   three inches.  Public comment was that they felt like that 

           3   might be hard to find.  They felt like the round 

           4   three-inch reflector is easily obtainable at the hardware 

           5   stores.  Most of them had that at this time.  They did not 

           6   like the red reflector and felt like that it might 

           7   conflict with the Coast Guard and navigation lights and 

           8   those reasons, and we did make that change to accommodate 

           9   that. 

          10             Regulations provided for a cabin purchase 

          11   program with an open bid period as set by the Department.  

          12   We provided criteria to determine the established maximum 

          13   value based on the size, previous bid offers and the 

          14   established market prices for these cabins.  We defined a 

          15   portable marine sanitation device as a device designed to 

          16   facilitate the transport of sewage for lawful onshore 

          17   disposal.  We also require the permanent marine sanitation 

          18   device facilities on these cabins be constructed to 

          19   prevent an overboard discharge and that the removal of a 

          20   liquid-type container for onshore disposal be required.  

          21   We restrict pumping of sewage to legally authorized 

          22   pump-out facilities. 

          23             We have received a total at this time of 150 

          24   applications that met the requirements for a floating 

          25   cabin permit.  We have identified 33 at this time that -- 


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           1   that we feel like are not permitted.  That number may 

           2   reduce once we do the final inspections.  We are in the 

           3   process at this time of conducting those final inspections 

           4   for all cabins which have met the application requirements 

           5   to determine eligibility of the permit and those permits 

           6   should go out by -- hopefully by the end of the month.  We 

           7   will be attempting to determine the ownership of the 

           8   cabins that -- of the 33 that at this time we don't have 

           9   applications for through investigations to determine who 

          10   owned it before and placing notices on those cabins to see 

          11   that they -- they get removed. 

          12             Staff recommends that Texas Parks and Wildlife 

          13   Commission adopt the following motion, "Texas Parks and 

          14   Wildlife Commission adopts 55.201 through 55.207 

          15   concerning floating cabins in public Coastal water.  The 

          16   changes to the proposed text as published in the 

          17   October 5, 2001 issue of the Texas Register." 

          18             Be happy to answer any questions. 

          19                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We have one person signed 

          20   up to speak, and then we may call you back to address 

          21   that. 

          22                  MR. JOHNSTON:  Okay. 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Jim Adkins. 

          24                  MR. ADKINS:  Yes.  My name is Jim Adkins.  

          25   I'm from Corpus.  I'm president of the Saltwater Fisheries 


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           1   Enhancement Association in Corpus.  My comments are going 

           2   to be short and brief and very positive.  I've been 

           3   involved in regulations or attempting to get regulations 

           4   on floating cabins.  First proposal was actually 1988, so 

           5   it's been a while.  The entire time we've wanted Parks and 

           6   Wildlife to be the regulatory agency.  That was 

           7   accomplished in this past session.  I guess my real 

           8   comment is finally the system really worked.  The Bill as 

           9   it was introduced in the Senate quite frankly wasn't that 

          10   good.  Through the help of Edmund Knemple and our local 

          11   legislative delegation from the Coastal Bend we made 

          12   changes in the House and got it done. 

          13             When it came to Parks and Wildlife, I can't tell 

          14   you how we appreciated the way the staff, Dennis Johnston, 

          15   Don Parker, Regional Commander in Corpus, Gary Palmer -- I 

          16   believe he's District Chief -- you know all these people.  

          17   They worked with the people involved, with the 

          18   constituency.  We've had discussions.  We've made 

          19   suggestions, they've made suggestions.  There's been a 

          20   great exchange.  And we've ended up both legislatively and 

          21   through the regulatory process with a neat workable system 

          22   and we hope you'll pass it.  Thanks. 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  I would guess 

          24   there's no more comment necessary from Dennis, so do we 

          25   have any discussion from the Commission or questions?  


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           1   Hearing none, do I have a motion? 

           2                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  So moved. 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  So moved.  Second? 

           4                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second. 

           5                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Second by Commissioner 

           6   Donato Ramos.  All in favor say aye?   

           7                  ("Aye") 

           8                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All opposed?  Motion 

           9   passed. 

          10   "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts Sections 

          11   55.201-55.207 concerning floating cabins in public coastal 

          12   water" with changes to proposed text (located in Exhibit 

          13   A) as published in the October 5, 2001 issue of the Texas 

          14   Register (26 TexReg)." 

          15   AGENDA ITEM NO. 8:  ACTION - PROPOSED PRINT ARTWORK 

          16   PROGRAM 

          17                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The next, Item 8 is also 

          18   an action item, Artwork approval by Frances Stiles. 

          19                  MS. STILES:  Good morning.  My name is I'm 

          20   Frances Stiles and I'm with the Administrative Resources 

          21   Division.  Under the terms of the contract with Collectors 

          22   Covey for artwork design and marketing of the departmental 

          23   print program, the Commission approves the artwork each 

          24   year for waterfowl, nongame, turkey and saltwater prints.  

          25   This year for the waterfowl, we have a pair of read-headed 


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           1   ducks, and the artist is Joe Hautman.  For the saltwater 

           2   artwork, we have a flounder, and the artist is John 

           3   Dearman.  For the turkey it's a Rio Grande Turkey, and the 

           4   artist is also John Dearman.  And for the nongame subject, 

           5   we have a slight delay in the artwork which should be 

           6   coming in December.  The species that is -- has been 

           7   selected is an avocet, and there's a scan of -- just so 

           8   you-all will know what the bird looks like.  If there are 

           9   no comments or questions, we do have a recommendation for 

          10   approval for your consideration. 

          11                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Madame Chairman, I 

          12   would move for the recommendation. 

          13                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second. 

          14                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?   

          15                  ("Aye") 

          16                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Opposed?  Passed. 

          17   "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission approves the use 

          18   of the above listed artwork for the print and stamp 

          19   designs.  The Executive Director is authorized to take the 

          20   necessary steps to provide these stamps for sale to the 

          21   public." 

          22   AGENDA ITEM NO. 9:  BRIEFING - BLACK BEAR IN TEXAS 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The next item is a 

          24   briefing on bears.  Nathan Garner will be presenting. 

          25                  (Whereupon a briefing was presented to the 


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           1                  Commission, the following proceedings were 

           2                  heard:) 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I'm going to step out and 

           4   Ernie is going to take over for me for one -- for a little 

           5   while. 

           6   AGENDA ITEM NO. 10: LAND ACQUISITION - BRAZORIA COUNTY 

           7                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  The next item on the 

           8   agenda is No. 10.  It's a land acquisition in Brazoria 

           9   County presented by Jack Bauer. 

          10                  MR. BAUER:  Commissioners, my name is Jack 

          11   Bauer, Director of Land Conservation.  This item 

          12   recommends a land -- recommends land acquisition at the 

          13   Nannie M. Stringfellow Wildlife management area in 

          14   Brazoria County, two 45-acre tracts are recommended as a 

          15   additions to the facility in support of management actions 

          16   to protect occurring wetlands.  Staff recommends the 

          17   Commission consider the motion before you to acquire 

          18   90 acres of adjacent property as a habitat addition to the 

          19   facility.  I would be happy to answer any questions. 

          20                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Are there any questions 

          21   or comments?  If not, do we have a motion? 

          22                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  So move. 

          23                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Second. 

          24                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  All in favor, please 

          25   say "aye." 


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           1                  ("Aye") 

           2                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Opposed?  Motion 

           3   carries.   

           4   "The Executive Director is authorized to take all 

           5   necessary steps to acquire approximately 90 acres from 

           6   wiling sellers in Brazoria County as a habitat addition to 

           7   the Nannie M. Stringfellow Wildlife Management Area." 

           8   AGENDA ITEM NO. 11:  LAND EXCHANGE - UVALDE COUNTY 

           9                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  And Jack, you have also 

          10   have the next item, No. 11, land exchange in Uvalde 

          11   County. 

          12                  MR. BAUER:  Thank you.  This item 

          13   represents a land exchange recommendation of less than fee 

          14   ownership at Garner State Park in Uvalde County.  The land 

          15   being recommended for trade away is considered excess 

          16   property by the park.  The conservation easement being 

          17   considered by trade gain will provide scenic reservation 

          18   for Garner and provide water quality protection to the 

          19   tributary stream entering the Frio River at the park.   

          20             Staff recommends the Commission consider the 

          21   motion before you to exchange approximately 62.6 acres 

          22   restricted against future development for approximately 

          23   482 acres similarly restricted in conjunction with Garner 

          24   State Park.  I would be happy to entertain any questions. 

          25                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Do we have any 


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           1   questions or comments? 

           2                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  I would like to 

           3   thank Jack, for getting this done.  Anytime you can trade 

           4   an abandoned landfill for a conservation easement of 

           5   482 acres, you're making a pretty good trade. 

           6                  MR. BAUER:  Thank you, sir. 

           7                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  In addition to that, I 

           8   would like to commend on being innovative in obtaining 

           9   this property.  The conservation easements are kind of a 

          10   new deal, you might say.  We're on the forefront of that, 

          11   I guess.  Congratulations.  And the time line that you 

          12   moved this project with, that's a reflection of you and 

          13   your staff. 

          14                  MR. BAUER:  Thank you. 

          15                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Do we have a motion 

          16   after all those accolades? 

          17                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  I so move. 

          18                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Do we have a second? 

          19                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Second. 

          20                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  All in favor say "aye." 

          21                  ("Aye") 

          22                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Opposed?  Carries.   

          23   "The Executive Director is authorized to take all 

          24   necessary steps to transfer approximately 62.676 acres 

          25   restricted against future subdivision and development to 


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           1   J/M Partnership in exchange for a conservation easement 

           2   restricting future subdivision and development on 482.27 

           3   acres in Uvalde County in conjunction with Garner SP." 

           4   AGENDA ITEM NO. 12:  LAND EXCHANGE - TRAVIS COUNTY 

           5                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Jack, you have the next 

           6   one also, the land exchange in Travis County. 

           7                  MR. BAUER:  Yes, sir.  This item recommends 

           8   a land exchange with Del Valle Independent School District 

           9   here at Department Headquarters, Travis County.  The land 

          10   being recommended for exchange will provide the ownership 

          11   arrangement with the school district to a allow the 

          12   construction of a joint use roadway connecting McKinney 

          13   Falls Parkway to the Department Headquarter.   

          14             Staff recommends the Commission consider the 

          15   motion before you to exchange easement rights of 

          16   approximately 1.64 acres to Del Valle Independent School 

          17   District for approximately 1.57 acres in fee to facilitate 

          18   road construction by the Texas Department of 

          19   Transportation.  And I'll be happy to answer questions. 

          20                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Are there any questions 

          21   on this item?  Comments?  Do I have a motion and a second? 

          22                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Motion. 

          23                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Second. 

          24                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor say "aye."   

          25                  ("Aye") 


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           1                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Opposed again, the 

           2   motion carries.  Jack, Thank you for a lot of good work 

           3   there. 

           4   "The Executive Director is authorized to take all 

           5   necessary steps to exchange right-of-way easement rights 

           6   to approximately 1.64 acres to the DVISD in exchange for 

           7   approximately 1.57 acres in fee for the purpose of 

           8   constructing a joint use road by DVISD and TPWD in 

           9   conjunction with plans by the DVISD to construct a new 

          10   junior high school adjacent to the TPWD Headquarters 

          11   Complex." 

          12                  MR. BAUER:  Thank you, sir. 

          13   AGENDA ITEM NO. 13:  LAND ACQUISITION - BRAZORIA COUNTY 

          14                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Item No. 13 is land 

          15   acquisition in Brazoria County and Jeff Francell will 

          16   handle that one.  Jeff? 

          17                  MR. FRANCELL:  Commissioners the first item 

          18   is considering the acquisition of 70 acres in Brazoria 

          19   County.  This project would be part of the Austin Woods 

          20   initiative.  It's hard to understate the significance of 

          21   this site.  It's one of the most important sites in the 

          22   United States for African-American history.  It's the 

          23   first historic site that Parks and Wildlife will manage 

          24   for African-American history and it's also the first new 

          25   State historic site in Texas in 13 years.  We are here 


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           1   talking about it, because of Proposition 8, which passed 

           2   on Tuesday.  There's $4 million for the development of 

           3   this site in that bond package.  We have partnerships on 

           4   this project with Levi Jordan Plantation Historic Society 

           5   as well as the University of Houston.  As well as 

           6   acquiring the property, we're also acquiring a significant 

           7   number of artifacts.  The artifacts have been removed from 

           8   the property and are housed at the University of Houston 

           9   and the artifacts will help us tell a real important story 

          10   for the history of Texas. 

          11             So the staff is recommending that the Commission 

          12   consider the acquisition of 70 acres in Brazoria County 

          13   for a new State historic site. 

          14                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Any questions? 

          15                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  I think it's important 

          16   for the audience and press and other friends to know be 

          17   aware that funding as mentioned for this acquisition comes 

          18   from a grant from Parks and Wildlife Foundation with 

          19   initial funding provided by Houston endowment.  So I think 

          20   that's critical to -- it was critical to, in part, our 

          21   decision.  But it also helps to -- us to follow the 

          22   guidelines previously set by Sunset Commission and others. 

          23                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Any other comments?  

          24   Entertain a motion. 

          25                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  I'll so move. 


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           1                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second. 

           2                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  All in favor, say 

           3   "aye."   

           4                  ("Aye") 

           5                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Opposed?  Motion 

           6   carries. 

           7   "The Executive Director is authorized to take all 

           8   necessary steps to purchase approximately 70 acres in 

           9   Brazoria County for the Levi Jordan Plantation for a new 

          10   State Historic Site." 

          11   AGENDA ITEM NO. 14:  LAND ACQUISITION - HILDAGO COUNTY 

          12                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  And Jeff, you have the 

          13   next one, also, land acquisition in Hidalgo County. 

          14                  MR. FRANCELL:  Thank you.  This acquisition 

          15   is part of the World Birding Center, specifically, the 

          16   World Birding Center site at Weslaco.  This is an aerial 

          17   photo of the World Birding Center Weslaco site.  Located 

          18   on the Llano Grande, which is a significant water feature 

          19   and also has a high concentration of good brush.  The 

          20   State park is not yet built.  We're acquiring -- continue 

          21   to acquire small pieces of land to benefit the site.  

          22   There's a significant inholding there, and we've worked 

          23   out a deal with the landowner and also with the Nature 

          24   Conservancy who helped us negotiate this project to buy 

          25   13 acres, lease 21.6 acres, and we will also maintain a 


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           1   right of first refusal on the landowner's 11 acres that 

           2   they retain. 

           3             And staff recommends that the Commission accept 

           4   this item. 

           5                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Mr. Chairman? 

           6                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Yes. 

           7                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  I would mention, as 

           8   well, on this item that this is a -- goes along with the 

           9   recommendation that was made by the Legislature, became a 

          10   part of the bonding package that was approved just 

          11   recently for this particular item.  So, here again, we 

          12   are -- the funding did come as a result of Legislative 

          13   mandate and approval of the recent bonds.  I just think 

          14   that needs to be known, as well. 

          15                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  We're finishing up on 

          16   14.  Ready to take a motion. 

          17                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Why don't you finish. 

          18                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Any further decision?  

          19   If not, do we have a motion? 

          20                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  I would move. 

          21                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  I would second. 

          22                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Any discussion further?  

          23   All in favor, say "aye."   

          24                  ("Aye") 

          25                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Opposed?  And the 


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           1   motion carries.   

           2   "The Executive Director is authorized to take all 

           3   necessary steps to purchase the 12.8-acre tract in Hidalgo 

           4   County for inclusion in the Weslaco World Birding Center 

           5   site." 

           6   AGENDA ITEM NO. 15:  LAND EXCHANGE - NUECES COUNTY 

           7                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  And, Madame Chairman, 

           8   the last item is No. 15. 

           9                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Again, Jeff Francell, land 

          10   exchange Nueces County. 

          11                  MR. FRANCELL:  For this item I need to 

          12   recognize that we have a couple visitors here.  We have 

          13   Mr. Utter from Corpus Christi.  He's the assistant city 

          14   manager as well as Mr. Weber who is from State 

          15   Representative Seaman's office. 

          16             This item is a land exchange with the City of 

          17   Corpus Christi at our Mustang Island State Park.  Mustang 

          18   Island is located in Nueces County on a significant 

          19   barrier island.  This is a map of the park.  It's a 

          20   4,000-acre park, so -- so the tracks that we're talking 

          21   about trading are fairly small, 2 acres each.  The City of 

          22   Corpus Christi annexed most of the island up to Port 

          23   Aransas in the past year, and they needed to locate a fire 

          24   station somewhere on the island.  And the best place that 

          25   they had was on our park. 


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           1             In exchange, the City of Corpus Christi has 

           2   agreed to trade us 2 acres on the south end of the park.  

           3   It's a half-mile long, 40-foot wide strip that runs down 

           4   to the gulf. 

           5             This is a schematic of what the site will look 

           6   like once -- once it's built.  The City of Corpus has 

           7   agreed to fence both tracts.  They will serve the State 

           8   Park with utilities -- I mean, with services from the 

           9   facility.  They'll eventually billed an attractive 

          10   facility and they also agree to pay any closing costs 

          11   associated with this transaction.  And staff recommends 

          12   that you move for this land exchange. 

          13                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there any questions? 

          14                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  I move approval. 

          15                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second. 

          16                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?   

          17                  ("Aye") 

          18                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Opposed?  Motion carries.  

          19   Thank you. 

          20   "The Executive Director is authorized to take all 

          21   necessary steps to transfer two acres at Mustang Island 

          22   State Park to the City of Corpus Christi for a fire 

          23   station and police substation in exchange for two adjacent 

          24   acres with Gulf frontage on the south side of the park." 

          25                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Is there any other 


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           1   business before us today? 

           2                  MR. SANSOM:  No, ma'am. 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  No other business, this 

           4   meeting is adjourned.   

           5                  (Meeting adjourned at 11:57.)  

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           1    

           2   ______________________________ 
               KATHARINE ARMSTRONG IDSAL, CHAIRMAN 
           3    

           4   ______________________________ 
               ERNEST ANGELO, JR., VICE CHAIR 
           5    

           6   ______________________________ 
               CAROL E. DINKINS 
           7    

           8   ______________________________ 
               PHILIP MONTGOMERY 
           9    

          10   ______________________________ 
               DONATO RAMOS 
          11    

          12   ______________________________ 
               JOHN AVILA, JR. 
          13    

          14   ______________________________ 
               ALVIN L. HENRY 
          15    

          16   ______________________________ 
               JOSEPH FITZSIMONS 
          17    

          18   ______________________________ 
               MARK E. WATSON, JR. 
          19   

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