Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Public Hearing

January 17, 2002

Commission Hearing Room
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
                                                                        1


           5            BE IT REMEMBERED, that heretofore on the 17th day

           6   of January, 2002, there came to be heard matters under the

           7   regulatory authority of the Parks and Wildlife Commission of

           8   Texas, in the Commission Hearing Room of the Texas Parks and

           9   Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, Texas, beginning at

          10   9:00 a.m., to wit:

          11

          12   APPEARANCES:
               THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
          13

          14   CHAIR:   Katharine Armstrong Idsal, San Antonio, Texas
                        Donato D. Ramos, Laredo, Texas
          15            Philip Montgomery, III, Dallas, Texas
                        Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas
          16            John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas
                        Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas (Absent)
          17            Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas (Absent)

          18            Joseph Fitzsimons, San Antonio, Texas

          19

          20

          21   THE TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
               Robert L. Cook, Interim Executive Director, and other
          22   personnel of the Parks and Wildlife Department

          23

          24

          25


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           1   OTHER APPEARANCES:

           2   Ms. Pauline Singleton

           3   Ms. Peggy Kimberlin

           4   Mr. Larry Vavroch

           5   Mr. Bryan Sybert

           6   Ms. Andrea Warren

           7   Mr. Francisco Bazan

           8   Mr. Chris Lawrence

           9   Mr. Tom Watson

          10   Ms. Mitzi Davis

          11   Mr. J.F. Johnson

          12

          13

          14

          15

          16

          17

          18

          19

          20

          21

          22

          23

          24

          25


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           1                          PUBLIC HEARING
                                        9:00 a.m.
           2

           3                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Greetings to you-all.  This

           4  meeting is called to order.  Before proceeding with any

           5  business, I believe Mr. Cook has a statement to make.

           6                 MR. COOK:  Thank you, Madame Chairman.  A

           7  public notice of this meeting containing all items on the

           8  proposed agenda has been filed in the Office of the Secretary

           9  of State as required by Chapter 551 Government Code referred

          10  to as the Open Meetings Law.  I would like for this action to

          11  be noted in the official record of this meeting.

          12                 I would also like to go over some ground rules

          13  for our meet today.  If you'll follow along with me, please, I

          14  would appreciate it.  So that everyone who wishes to will have

          15  a chance to address the Commission in an orderly fashion, the

          16  following ground rules will be followed.  The Chairman is in

          17  charge of this meeting and by law, it is her duty to preserve

          18  order, direct the order of the hearing, and recognize persons

          19  to be heard.  I will be assisting the Chairman today as

          20  sergeant at arms.  We have sign-up cards for everyone wishing

          21  to speak and the Chairman will call names from those cards one

          22  at a time.  Each person will be allowed to speak from the

          23  podium one at a time.  When your name is called, please come

          24  to the podium, state your name, who you represent, if anyone

          25  other than yourself.  Then state your position on the agenda


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           1  under consideration and supporting facts that will help the

           2  Commission understand your concerns.  Please limit your

           3  remarks to the specific agenda item under consideration.

           4                 Each person who wants to address the Commission

           5  will have three minute to speak.  I will keep track of the

           6  time on this handy dandy little traffic light over here and

           7  will notify you when your three minute is up.  Now, as you

           8  know, that's assuming that I can figure out how to operate

           9  this traffic light.  When your time is up, please resume your

          10  seat so that others may speak.  Your time may be extended if a

          11  Commissioner has a question for you.  If the Commissioners ask

          12  a question or discuss something among themselves, that time

          13  will not be counted against you.

          14                 Statements that are merely argumentative or

          15  critical of others will not be tolerated.  There is a

          16  microphone at the podium.  It is not necessary to raise your

          17  voice.  I also ask that you show proper respect for the

          18  Commissioners as well as other members of the audience.  You

          19  will not be recognized out of turn by raising your hand or

          20  interrupting others.  Disruptive or offensive behavior will be

          21  grounds for immediate ejection from the meeting.  If you would

          22  like to submit written material to the Commission, please give

          23  them to Dee Skelton who is sitting right here on the outside

          24  and she will pass those written materials out to the

          25  Commission.  Thank you.


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           1                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Mr. Cook.  Next is

           2  the approval of the minutes which have already been

           3  distributed.  Is there a motion for approval?

           4                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  So move.

           5                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second.

           6                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  A motion by Commissioner

           7  Fitzsimons, a second by Commissioner Ramos.  All in favor say

           8  aye.

           9                 ("Aye")

          10                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All opposed?  Hearing none,

          11  motion carries.

          12                 Next is the acceptance of gifts which have also

          13  been distributed.  Is there a motion for approval?

          14                  TPWD DONATIONS OF $500 OR MORE

          15            (Donors are listed in the following order:
                        Donor; Description; Purpose of Donation)
          16

          17   (1)  Rattlemaster's of Texas; CASH; Lone Star Legacy
               (2)  Liberty-Eylau ISD; CASH; Freshwater Fisheries Center
          18   (3)  TXU; CASH; Freshwater Fisheries Center
               (4)  First National Bank of Athens; CASH; Freshwater
          19        Fisheries Center
               (5)  First National Bank of Athens; CASH; Freshwater
          20        Fisheries Center
               (6)  R.A. Overcash, Jr. Family Foundation; CASH; Freshwater
          21        Fisheries Center
               (7)  Global Industries Offshore; CASH; Artificial Reef
          22        Program
               (8)  Unocal; CASH; Artificial Reef Program
          23   (9)  Rio Grande Valley Birding Festival; Binoculars; Las
                    Palomas WMA
          24   (10) Ocean House; CASH; Lone Star Legacy
               (11) City of Beaumont; CASH; The Great Texas Birding Classic
          25   (12) Galveston Island CVB; CASH; The Great Texas Birding
                    Classic

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           1   (13) McBride Foundation; CASH; The Great Texas Birding
                    Classic
           2   (14) Friends of Pedernales Falls SP; Power Washer; Pedernales
                    Falls State Park
           3   (15) March for Parks; Windows, Insulation, Siding and
                    Hardware; Cooper Lake State Park
           4   (16) Big John's Soft Plastics; Soft Plastics; Angler
                    Education
           5   (17) Friends of Fort Boggy; 6X6 Polaris Ranger; Fort Boggy
                    State Park
           6   (19) March for Parks; Window unit and Mattresses; Cooper Lake
                    State Park
           7                                TOTAL     $714,095

           8                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Move approval.

           9                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Motion by Commissioner Angelo.

          10                 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Second.

          11                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Second by Commissioner

          12  Montgomery.

          13                 Next are the retirement certificates and

          14  service awards.  Mr. Cook, would you please make the

          15  presentations.

          16                 MR. COOK:  Thank you, Madame Chairman.  If you

          17  will join me, please, first on our list of retirements today,

          18  we have two retirements from our organization and both of

          19  these people we all know well and we are going to miss them.

          20                 First of all Mary Alice Carlin from the Human

          21  Resources Division is our HR Assistant I here in Austin,

          22  Texas.  She is retiring with 26 years of service.  Mary Alice

          23  Carlin has been employed with TPWD since 1975.  Her TPWD

          24  service includes employment in several divisions including

          25  Fisheries, Resource Protection and State Parks.  She currently


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           1  serves as HR Assistant in Human Resources where she assists in

           2  managing the student intern program and serves as a resource

           3  to supervisors and employees in the employment and selection

           4  process.  Mary Alice has worked in Human Resources for the

           5  last 20 years and retires with 26 years of service.  Mary

           6  Alice Carlin.

           7                 (Applause.)

           8                 MR. COOK:  Let's try to do it this way.

           9  Congratulations.

          10                 MS. CARLIN:  Thank you.

          11                 MR. COOK:  Next is a gentleman that I know well

          12  and we will miss him.  Roger Rosenbaum, State Parks Manager V

          13  in Kerrville, Texas, retiring with 25 years of service.

          14                 Roger began his employment with TPWD in

          15  September of 1976.  Roger's 25 and a half years with TPWD

          16  include positions such as Park Ranger III at Lake Brownwood

          17  State Park, Assistant Manager at Pedernales Falls State Park,

          18  Manager at Mission Tejas State Historic Site, Manager at Inks

          19  Lake State Park and the last seven and a half years he has

          20  been the State Parks Regional Director at Kerrville.

          21                 As State Parks Regional Director Roger has been

          22  responsible for all aspects of daily operations and management

          23  of regional State Park sites, programs, initiatives,

          24  functions, and personnel, including both coordination within

          25  and outside the region.  Roger has provided budget, revenue,


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           1  planning, marketing, quality assurance, and decision making

           2  assistance and support for each park manager in that region.

           3  Responsible for effective coordination with an Austin based

           4  program staff and personnel for other divisions on matters

           5  affecting areas and programs within that region.  Roger, we're

           6  going to miss you.  Roger Rosenbaum.

           7                 (Applause.)

           8                 MR. COOK:  Thank you, Roger.

           9                 Fortunately the following folks who are coming

          10  to get their services awards are not retiring.  We're going to

          11  continue to see their smiling faces around.  The first one of

          12  which I am assured by Mr. Durocher and the people of Inland

          13  Fisheries is a very important person to us at Possum Kingdom.

          14                 Ed Nunez, Environmental Specialist III, Inland

          15  Fisheries, Possum Kingdom Fish Hatchery has been with us for

          16  35 years.  He began for TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION in

          17  December, 1966, at Possum Kingdom State Fish Hatchery as a

          18  Biology Field Worker.  He has ben promoted up to Fish and

          19  Wildlife Technician career ladder to the highest level and has

          20  distinguished himself as a leader among all the hatchery

          21  staff.  When he began working for TPWD 35 years ago, he

          22  thought it would be for a short time until he found a better

          23  job.  But after 35 years, he is still here waiting for that

          24  better job.  He obviously enjoys his job and loves what he

          25  does.  Ed Nunez Possum Kingdom State Fish Hatchery.


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           1                 (Applause.)

           2                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Congratulations.

           3                 MR. COOK:  Now I look at some of these names

           4  and it calls back some times.  Billy Francis in the Law

           5  Enforcement Division at Mason, Texas, began his employment

           6  with TPWD in December, 1971.  He was assigned to Mason County

           7  where he remains today.  Known throughout the area by

           8  citizens, landowners, and hunters for his knowledge and skills

           9  in the natural resources.  Billy is recognized as impartial

          10  and diligent in law enforcement conservation and a good friend

          11  to many, many people who live and work and hunt and fish in

          12  the Mason County area.  Billy Francis, Mason, Texas.

          13                 (Applause.)

          14                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Congratulations.

          15                 MR. COOK:  I asked Billy this morning how many

          16  years it was he said "I think it's 15."

          17                 Frank J. Ricketson Law Enforcement Division,

          18  San Angelo, Texas, has been with us 30 years.  Frank began his

          19  employment with TPWD in December, 1971.  After graduating from

          20  the Game Warden Academy at A&M his first duty assignment was

          21  to Region 8 District 2, Mount Vernon in Franklin County.

          22  Frank served around the state from Hudspeth County, Hopkins

          23  County, Titus, Potter and Smith County and in May, 1977, he

          24  was promoted to Regional Commander in San Angelo where he

          25  remains today.  Frank Ricketson, Law Enforcement from San


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           1  Angelo.

           2                 (Applause.)

           3                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Congratulations.

           4                 MR. COOK:  Thank you, Frank.

           5                 John D. Rische from the Law Enforcement

           6  Division, Lubbock, Texas, Lieutenant Game Warden has been the

           7  agency for 30 years.  John began his employment with TPWD in

           8  December of 1971, the same class as Frank.  His first duty

           9  station was Sweetwater where he stayed for three years.  He

          10  later transferred to El Paso and was stationed there for 16

          11  years.  In August, 1990, he was promoted to lieutenant and

          12  remains there in that service at Lubbock today.  John Rische,

          13  Law Enforcement, Lubbock, Texas.

          14                 (Applause.)

          15                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Congratulations.

          16                 MR. COOK:  Well, the next guy we all know

          17  pretty well.  James E. Robertson, Director III, Law

          18  Enforcement Division, Austin, Texas, has been with this agency

          19  for 30 years.  Jim Robertson started his career with TPWD as a

          20  Game Warden Cadet in 1971.  His first duty station was Aransas

          21  Pass.  They usually send some of the troublemakers in the

          22  class to the coast down in Aransas Pass.

          23                 In 1972 he accepted an assignment at the Game

          24  Warden Training Academy in College Station, Texas, where he

          25  taught five classes of cadets.  When the academy closed in


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           1  1975 to move from Texas A&M to Austin, Jim transferred back to

           2  a field position in Corpus Christi.  In 1982 he received the

           3  Gulf Coast Conservation Association Region 10 Officer of the

           4  Year award.  That year one of only two wardens to accomplish

           5  that feat when he repeated in 1983.

           6                 In 1988 he received the Shikar-Safari Wildlife

           7  Officer of the Year Award for the State of Texas for a

           8  two-year investigation that led to the felony convictions of

           9  three fish dealers who were illegally trafficking in red drum

          10  and spotted sea trout.

          11                 In November, 1987, he promoted to Supervisor of

          12  Coastal Law Enforcement and moved to Austin.  While in the

          13  this position, he represented the Department and the State of

          14  Texas on the Gulf States Marine Fisheries Commission Law

          15  Enforcement Committee, Advisory Panel, Red Drum Advisory Panel

          16  and Black Drum Management Planning Committee.  In addition,

          17  Jim served on the Texas Emergency Response Committee and the

          18  Governor's Council of Emergency Management.

          19                 In 1992, Jim promoted to Chief of Staff in Law

          20  Enforcement and in 1996 was promoted to the Director of the

          21  Law Enforcement Division.  He was elected president of the Law

          22  Enforcement Section of the Southeastern Association of Game

          23  and Fish Agencies in 1999 and was selected as the

          24  International Conservation Officer of the Year in 2000 by

          25  Safari Club International.  In 2001 Jim was assigned to the


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           1  Executive Office where he serves today. Jim Robertson.

           2                 (Applause.)

           3                 MR. COOK:  Next from Law Enforcement Division

           4  Velton A. Williams, Jr., Game Warden V, Goliad, Texas.  Been

           5  with the department 30 years.  Began his employment in

           6  December of 1971.  His first duty station was Harris County

           7  where he served approximately four years in Crosby, Texas.  He

           8  then transferred to Galveston County where he served another

           9  five years in Texas City.

          10                 In 1980, he transferred to Goliad County where

          11  he works today.  During his tenure in Goliad, he was shot at

          12  point blank range while assisting the Goliad Sheriff's

          13  Department in the apprehension of a fugitive.  Velton A.

          14  Williams, Jr., Law Enforcement with 30 years.

          15                 (Applause.)

          16                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Congratulations.

          17                 MR. COOK:  Jorge Zapata, from the State Parks

          18  Division, Falcon Heights, Texas, Park Ranger IV has been with

          19  the department 30 years.  Jorge began his employment in 1971

          20  as a part-time and after three or four years he became a

          21  full-time employee.  Jorge has worked at Falcon State Park for

          22  more than half of his life and thanks to the people that gave

          23  him the opportunity to work in one of the best parks in the

          24  State of Texas.  Jorge Zapata, Falcon State Park.

          25                 (Applause.)


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           1                 MR. COOK:  Thank you.

           2                 Next Dennis B. Thomas from the Law Enforcement

           3  Division in Canyon, Texas, Game Warden V with 20 years of

           4  service.  Dennis began his employment with TPWD in January of

           5  1972.  His first duty station was Baytown for about two and a

           6  half years and then transferred to Shamrock in Wheeler County.

           7  He remain there had for 20 years and then transferred to

           8  Canyon in Randall County and has been there for the last seven

           9  years.  Dennis Thomas, Law Enforcement Division, 20 years of

          10  service.

          11                 (Applause.)

          12                 MR. THOMAS:  It's 30 years.

          13                 MR. COOK:  30 years?  Yes, sir.

          14                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Congratulations on your 30

          15  years.

          16                 MR. THOMAS:  Thank you very much.  I didn't

          17  want to back up.

          18                 MR. COOK:  You'll have to do it over.  Thank

          19  you.

          20                 All right.  Larry Shahan, State Parks Division

          21  Wichita Falls, Texas, Park Ranger IV has been with the

          22  department 25 years.  Larry began his employment with TPWD in

          23  December, 1976, at Lake Arrowhead State Park where he's worked

          24  his entire career.  His achievements include a Class A water

          25  certification, Class B wastewater certification and a 15-year


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           1  safety award.  Larry has enjoyed meeting new people, both park

           2  visitors and fellow employees and has enjoyed working with

           3  park outreach programs.  Larry Shahan, Wichita Falls Texas

           4  State Parks Division.

           5                 (Applause.)

           6                 MR. COOK:  Thank you, Larry.

           7                 I want to be sure that I haven't missed anybody

           8  again.  I believe that's it.

           9                 Madame Chairman and Members, next we have a

          10  recognition award that we would like to present.  In January,

          11  1999, TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION along with the

          12  General Land Office and the Texas Natural Resource

          13  Conversation Commission adopted the Seagrass Conservation Plan

          14  in Texas.  As the Department began working with Coastal

          15  constituents in an effort to implement the plan, one of the

          16  first Texans to join in that effort was Anne Ashmun.  Although

          17  a resident of Austin, Anne grew up fishing and collecting

          18  shells along the Texas coast and over the years Anne's love

          19  for these wonderful resources grew into an advocacy for

          20  protecting their future.  Along with her husband Stuart, the

          21  Ashmuns has have been dedicated supporters of conservation

          22  throughout Texas as well as illustrated by their leadership

          23  within the Nature Conservancy of Texas and their support of

          24  Marine Research at the University of Texas Marine Science

          25  Center in Port Aransas.


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           1                 Members, as you may recall, as part of the

           2  Seagrass Conservation strategy in Redfish Bay, the Commission

           3  established the Redfish Bay State Scientific Area in June of

           4  2000.  Within the confines of the area, staff planned and laid

           5  out a series of three paddling trails called the "Lighthouse

           6  Lakes Trails" and a Parks and Wildlife Foundation endowment

           7  account was established for the State Scientific Area.  In

           8  each of these last two years, Parks and Wildlife has hosted a

           9  Lone Star Legacy weekend event at the Lighthouse Lakes Trails.

          10  At the 2001 event, Texans had the opportunity to compete in a

          11  fishing tournament, take guided paddling tours, participate in

          12  a 13-mile paddle race and try out almost every variation of

          13  paddle craft imaginable.  In all, over 200 Texans including a

          14  large number of children had the opportunity to enjoy this

          15  wonder area on that weekend.

          16                 And they had that opportunity because, once

          17  again, the Ashmuns stepped up to support outdoor conservation.

          18  Anne and Stuart underwrote the 2001 Loan Star Legacy event at

          19  the Redfish Bay State Scientific Area through their generous

          20  contribution of $5,000 to the Lone Star Legacy endowment of

          21  that area.  Without their support this event would have not

          22  enjoyed the success that it did.  It was a terrific weekend.

          23                 Today, members, I ask you to join me in

          24  recognizing two of Texas' most stalwart conservationists and

          25  two of TPWD's best partners, Anne and Stuart Ashmun.


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           1                 (Applause.)

           2                 MR. COOK:  Thank you again.  Thank you very

           3  much.

           4   AGENDA ITEM NO. 1:  ACTION --  APPROVAL OF AGENDA

           5                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The first order of business is

           6  approval of the agenda which we have before us.  As per our

           7  discussion, in committee, Items 4 and 5 have been withdrawn

           8  from the agenda.  Is there a motion for approval?

           9                 COMMISSIONER AVILA:  So moved.

          10                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I have a motion by

          11  Commissioner Avila.  I need a second.

          12                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second from Commissioner

          13  Ramos.

          14                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor say aye.

          15                 ("Aye.")

          16                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any opposed?  Hearing none,

          17  motions carries.

          18   AGENDA ITEM NO. 2:  ACTION - EQUINE ANEMIA REGULATIONS

          19                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The next agenda item is an

          20  action item.  Dr. Jerry Cooke will present.

          21                 DR. COOKE:  Madame Chairman and members,

          22  yesterday we discussed this item in a little more detail but

          23  as background for those who were not here yesterday, this

          24  action is going to be addressing changes in Chapter 59 related

          25  to parks.  Chapter 65 related to wildlife management areas.


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           1  When we invite the public onto our properties they come with a

           2  reasonable expectation that they and their property is going

           3  to have reasonable protection.  However, there is a disease

           4  known as equine infectious anemia and once a horse or a mule

           5  or a burro is infected with this virus it becomes a hazard to

           6  all other horses within which it comes in contact.  This

           7  action would require that anyone who brings an equine of any

           8  kind onto a wildlife management area or state park have in

           9  their possession for each animal that they bring a VS Form

          10  1011 from the Texas Animal Health Commission which certifies

          11  that the animal has been tested negative in an official equine

          12  infectious anemia test within the previous 12 months.

          13                 That concludes my presentation if you have any

          14  questions.

          15                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Is there any discussions by

          16  the Commission on this issue?  Well, first I think we have

          17  some speakers.  We will now hear from those who signed up to

          18  speak.  I would like to remind you that you have three minutes

          19  and will the next person signed up please be ready to make

          20  your presentation.  Pauline Singleton, Peggy Kimberlin.

          21                 MS. SINGLETON:  Madame Chairman, Commissioners,

          22  I'm representing the Greater Houston Horse Council and when I

          23  described to them the proposed rule change that you're going

          24  to vote on this morning, every person that was there at that

          25  meeting voted in favor of it.  They all voted to support it.


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           1  As an individual horse owner, I can tell you why this has

           2  broad support in the horse industry.  Some years ago my

           3  husband and I had the misfortune to have an outbreak of this

           4  disease in our horses and we lost three out of six.  Since

           5  then I've talked to many, many other horse people.  I'm talked

           6  to people that have lost 10, 20, 30 head of horses in the

           7  State of Texas in one outbreak.  I've talked to two people

           8  that have had three different outbreaks.  Mr. Ben Knolte

           9  (phonetic) who is the racing secretary or the executive

          10  secretary of the Racing Commission in a State of Pennsylvania

          11  told me about an outbreak that he witnessed years ago and he

          12  wouldn't tell me whether it was in Texas or somewhere else,

          13  but he said they lost 100 head of horses.

          14                 Now that kind of thing is rare but no one that

          15  has a lot of time and effort and money invested in their

          16  horses wants to take a chance on exposing themselves to that

          17  kind of situation, especially not just because they decided to

          18  spend a pleasant day at a park.  One of the things that makes

          19  it a matter of concern is the life cycle of the primary vector

          20  which spreads this disease.  It happens to be the large horse

          21  flies of the genus tabanus.  And their life cycle depends on

          22  bodies of waters, streams, creeks, bayous, particularly wooded

          23  areas.  And I can't think of a park that doesn't feature some

          24  body of water that would be very accommodating to these

          25  insects.  So it's one of the last places that I would want to


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           1  encounter someone with an infected horse.  So I strongly urge

           2  to vote for this proposal.  Thank you.

           3                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Ms. Singleton.

           4                 MS. KIMBERLIN:  My name is Peggy Kimberlin,

           5  editor of the Trail Riders Journal.  Commission records will

           6  reflect that in August last year I presented to you a

           7  situation of a Denton County woman having to euthanize her

           8  horse after possibly contracting that disease in Lake Roberts

           9  State Park.  I really want to salute you all for your effort

          10  in swiftly carrying this through and bringing it to the

          11  attention that it needed to provide a safe pleasant experience

          12  for equestrians in the state parks is where we're headed now

          13  and hopefully it will help control this very contagious

          14  disease.  I salute all of you and thank you so much for all

          15  your efforts.

          16                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Next we have Larry

          17  Vavroch.  Is that correct?

          18                 MR. VAVROCH:  Yes.  It's Larry Vavroch.  I'm

          19  the president of the Trans Group the Trails Association of Ray

          20  Roberts and I would like to speak in support of the proposed

          21  regulation.  I would like to pass on that the equine users,

          22  the majority of equine users at the Ray Roberts would also

          23  like to support this.

          24                 As Peggy mentioned the impact of a horse

          25  catching this disease is not only is that horse destroyed or


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           1  quarantined for its life, but immediately after that horse is

           2  discovered all the horses on that property and all the

           3  neighbor's horses for a, you know, area around at least 200

           4  yards are quarantined for the next 90 days.  So all those

           5  people have lost the use of their horses if this disease is

           6  contracted.  And Texas Parks and Wildlife has had kind an

           7  informal requirement on the web page or at least equine page,

           8  web page for a few years requiring Coggins but because it's

           9  been informal some parks have checked it, some parks have not.

          10  And I believe that passing this regulation would make that

          11  more consistent across the parks and would do a great service

          12  for us.

          13                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  I don't believe

          14  there are any more speakers on this subject.  Does staff have

          15  any comments to the comments of the speakers?  Are there any

          16  comments from the Commission?  Is there a motion on this item?

          17                 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Since we have the

          18  equestrian groups here, I hope you-all continue to keep us

          19  filled in on how we can make the parks as attractive as

          20  possible to equestrian users.  Certainly one step we're trying

          21  to take.  We would like to hear from you as much as possible.

          22                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there any more comments

          23  from the Commission?

          24                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Madame Chairman, I would

          25  move approval of the motion.


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           1                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second.

           2                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I have a motion by

           3  Commissioner Angelo, second by Commissioner Ramos.  All in

           4  favor say aye.

           5                 ("Aye")

           6                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All opposed?  Hearing none,

           7  motion carries.

           8   "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts 31 TAC

           9   Section 59.132, 65.190, and 65.199, concerning equine anemia

          10   regulations, with changes to the proposed text as published

          11   in the December 14, 2001, issue of the Texas Register (25

          12   TexReg 1024l)."

          13   AGENDA ITEM NO. 3:  ACTION- STATEWIDE OYSTER FISHERY

          14   PROCLAMATION AMENDMENTS

          15                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The next item on the agenda is

          16  Statewide Oyster Fishery Proclamation Amendments.

          17  Mr. Riechers.

          18                 MR. RIECHERS:  Madame Chairman, Commissioners,

          19  my name is Robin Riechers.  I'm Management Director of the

          20  Coastal Fisheries Division.  This item proposes final adoption

          21  of amendments to Chapter 58 subchapter 8, the Oyster Fishery

          22  Proclamation and it's in accordance with -- these amendments

          23  are in accordance with Senate Bill 305 which was passed during

          24  the last legislative session.  We're having a little problem

          25  there?  Okay.  Throughout the legislative session, we met with


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           1  the Oyster Leaseholders Association, the Oyster Advisory

           2  Committee basically keeping them informed of the requirements

           3  that were going to be required of them under Senate Bill 305.

           4  More recently after the proposals we basically have met again

           5  with the leaseholders association, the Oyster Advisory

           6  Committee and we held a public hearing in the Galveston County

           7  area.  There were 11 people in attendance at the public

           8  hearing and 11 gave us individual comments.  The only comments

           9  directed toward the proposals concern the implementation date

          10  of a $200 renewal fee.  Persons commented that they were under

          11  the impression that the renewal fee would occur at the end the

          12  15-year term which will begin on March 1 of 2002.

          13                 The changes proposed are in accordance with

          14  Senate Bill 305 and they basically set the term of the lease

          15  for 15 years.  They change the per acre lease fee from $3 to

          16  $6 and they create a 10 percent penalty if that fee is not due

          17  on March 1st.  They have 90 days in which to pay the fee and

          18  the 10 percent penalty.  If they do not pay within 90 days the

          19  lease is then terminated.  Further provisions of Senate Bill

          20  305 provided specific guidance for the transfer and renewal of

          21  leases.  Upon renewal or transfer, the Department will charge

          22  $200 and can set procedures basically to accommodate these

          23  transactions.  In regards to the earlier public comment, the

          24  legislation took effect September 1 of 2001; thus the renewal

          25  which will occur March 1 of 2002 will be subject to the $200


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           1  renewal fee.

           2                 Additionally the rule would require upon

           3  renewal that the leaseholder provide within one year of that

           4  first renewal an updated lease survey to the Department.  The

           5  leaseholders currently have first right of refusal at the end

           6  of the lease and the proposals also include provisions which

           7  would allow an auction of the lease and the Department at that

           8  time can set a minimum acceptable price based on previous

           9  auctions, open market prices and other factors.

          10                 Staff currently recommends only one change to

          11  the proposed rules as they were published in the Texas

          12  Register and this is just for purpose of consistency and

          13  clarification.  And in Section 5830, lease renewals, we would

          14  recommend that "the need for depuration of polluted oysters"

          15  be changed to "the need for depuration of oysters taken from

          16  nonapproved areas."  It's just a clarification so we're

          17  consistent with our language throughout that chapter.  Further

          18  staff recommends that we adopt the motion which does reference

          19  that amendment.

          20                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We have no one signed up to

          21  speak on this item.  Is there any comments from the Commission

          22  on this?  Is there a motion on this item?

          23                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  So moved adoption.

          24                 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Second.

          25                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Motion by Commissioner


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           1  Fitzsimons and second by Commissioner Montgomery.  All in

           2  favor say aye.

           3                 ("Aye")

           4                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any opposed?  Hearing none the

           5  motion carries.

           6   "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts amendments to

           7   31 TAC Section 58.-and (located in Exhibit A), concerning

           8   Statewide Oyster Fishery Proclamation as published tin the

           9   December 14, 2001 issue of the Texas Register (26 TexReg

          10   10232)."

          11   AGENDA ITEM NO. 6:  ACTION - NONPROFIT PARTNERS, EMPLOYEE

          12   FUNDRAISING, AND YOUTH-APPROPRIATE ADVERTISING

          13                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The next on the agenda is an

          14  action item, nonprofit partners, employee fundraising and

          15  youth-appropriate advertising.  Gene McCarty.

          16                 MR. McCARTY:  Chairman, Commissioners my name

          17  is Gene McCarty Chief of Staff for the Agency.  Texas Parks

          18  and Wildlife Sunset Bill, Senate Bill 305 requires the

          19  Commission to adopt best practices for official nonprofit

          20  partners and other nonprofit partners.  This Bill requires

          21  that the Commission adopt guidelines for solicitation of

          22  sponsorships by the official nonprofit partners.  Policies for

          23  Texas Parks and Wildlife employee fundraising and rules for

          24  youth-appropriate advertising.  The rules were published in

          25  the December 14th issue of the Texas Register and I'll now go


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           1  over those proposed rules as published.

           2                 Best practices for the nonprofit partners were

           3  developed based on recommendations made in the Sunset staff

           4  report.  These best practices include adopting a conflict of

           5  interest policy, publishing an annual report and making the

           6  current IRS return audit and exempt status available to the

           7  public.  Partners must comply with standards of safeguards for

           8  accounting.  These include adopting financial procedures for

           9  acceptance of funds and prohibiting TPWD employees from

          10  spending or obligating partner funds.  Partners must also

          11  comply with state and federal requirements governing TPWD

          12  spending for expenditures of any State funds.

          13                 TPWD employees may not hold paid positions or

          14  receive direct benefits from partners, however, the partners

          15  may reimburse employees for documented expenses as well as

          16  award scholarships to employees.  Lastly, employees

          17  fundraising on behalf of the partner must comply with the

          18  employee fundraising activity provisions in this title.

          19                 The Sunset Bill allows the Commission to name

          20  one nonprofit partner as the official nonprofit partner of the

          21  agency.  This official nonprofit partner must adopt the best

          22  practices previously mentioned as well as follow the best

          23  practices based as -- follow these best practice as

          24  recommended by the Sunset staff report.  Provide that the

          25  chairman of the Commission adopt a majority of the official


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           1  nonprofits board, prohibit Texas Parks and Wildlife employees

           2  from serving as voting members of the official nonprofit

           3  board, prohibit the official nonprofit from using State funds

           4  to influence legislative action.  An independent accounting

           5  firm shall audit the official nonprofit partner annually.  A

           6  copy of the audit shall be sent to the Department.  Any State

           7  funds received by the official nonprofit partner shall be

           8  subject to audit by the State Auditor's Office.  And not later

           9  than three years following the selection of the official

          10  nonprofit, the Commission must assess whether the official

          11  nonprofit is still needed.

          12                 In addition to best practices for the official

          13  nonprofit, Senate Bill 305 requires the Commission to develop

          14  sponsorship guidelines.  These allow the official nonprofit to

          15  solicit and accept corporate sponsorships when they are

          16  consistent with the mission of TPWD and comply with the

          17  following sponsorship requirements.  The official nonprofit

          18  may not accept sponsorships from entities that conflict with

          19  the Department's mission or legislative mandates.  Are

          20  regulated by or in litigation with the Department at the time

          21  of consideration or would result in the role of TPWD being

          22  less prominent than that of the sponsor.

          23                 The official nonprofit may recognize sponsors

          24  solely in the context of the TPWD program, event or material

          25  that the sponsor has supported.  Only when the contribution is


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           1  greater than the cost associated with providing the

           2  recognition and may not include -- may not include signage of

           3  any kind on any State-owned vehicle or trailer.  Sponsorship

           4  recognition by the official nonprofit shall be based on the

           5  contribution amount, scope, and duration.  The Department

           6  will, however, have final approval of levels and terms of

           7  recognition on a case-by-case basis.  A report must be

           8  prepared and submitted to the Department by the official

           9  nonprofit annually.  And finally the payment of sponsorship

          10  financial contributions shall be made directly to the official

          11  nonprofit.

          12                 Sunset required that the Commission adopt

          13  Department employee fundraising guidelines for gifts equal to

          14  or greater than $500.  These include allowing employees to

          15  solicit and accept donations as part of their official duties,

          16  requiring that the employees report their fundraising

          17  activities quarterly.  Prohibiting employees whose jobs

          18  include regulatory oversight of the entity from soliciting or

          19  accepting donations from that entity.  And prohibiting

          20  employees from soliciting or accepting donations as a

          21  consequence of administering or enforcing State law or

          22  Department regulations.

          23                 Lastly Sunset required that the Commission

          24  adopt rules relating to youth-appropriate advertising as it

          25  pertains to the youth version of the outdoor annual.  This


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           1  would limit advertising that is appropriate for youth viewing

           2  to advertisements that do not include alcohol or tobacco

           3  products.

           4                 We received seven public comments as of this

           5  morning.  The bulk of these are opposed to the requirements

           6  that an independent audit apply to all nonprofit partners.

           7  Staff agrees with these comments and does not wish to place

           8  any unnecessary financial burden on nonprofit partners and

           9  proposes to amend Texas Administrative Code 31 to read as

          10  follows:  The provisions of Subsection B, C, D1, D2 and E of

          11  this section shall apply to nonprofit partners as defined in

          12  Texas Parks and Wildlife Code Chapter 11.201.  What that

          13  effectively does is take the requirement that all nonprofits

          14  have an annual audit away and only apply that to the official

          15  nonprofit partner.  That will eliminate, I think, the biggest

          16  concern of the smaller friends group and nonprofit partners

          17  that a required annual audit might be just burdensome to them

          18  and financially a problem.

          19                 Staff recommends the following motion:  The

          20  TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION adopt new 31 Texas

          21  Administrative Code Chapter 51.165 through 168 concerning

          22  nonprofit partners, employee fundraising, youth-appropriate

          23  advertising with amendments to the text as published in the

          24  December 14th issue of the Texas Register.  Any questions?

          25                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any questions from


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           1  the Commission?  We have one person signed up to speak on this

           2  item, I believe.  Mr. Haire.  How are you?

           3                 MR. HAIRE:  Good morning.

           4                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Good morning.

           5                 MR. HAIRE:  I'm Jim Haire from Tyler and I

           6  appreciate this chance to comment on your sponsorships.  Your

           7  new youth advertising rules says that advertising that

           8  includes alcohol and tobacco is not appropriate for viewing by

           9  youths.  I agree.  And I ask that you consider the following

          10  when you implement this.  About 3.1 million copies of your

          11  fishing regulations are distributed annually with numerous

          12  alcohol ads.  There is no practical way to separate these

          13  millions of copies from kids.  Retailers like Wal-Mart put the

          14  booklets out on counters and tables for convenience.  The idea

          15  of printing special copies for kids sounds great, but it's

          16  impractical to administrate.  If kids are given a kid version,

          17  the one year they take the hunting education course, for

          18  example, they still get the adult copies during the years

          19  before and after.  I trust that you will remove alcohol ads

          20  from your fishing regulations to be consistent with your own

          21  youth advertising rule.

          22                 Also you should not address the advertising

          23  issue by banning kids from state fishing events.  The Gulf

          24  Coast Roundup in which the average size fish are caught for

          25  hatchery use would attract your number one outreach target,


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           1  kids.  It's a natural father/son event but kids are banned

           2  because beer key chains are being handed out to their dads.

           3                 On another alcoholic sponsorship issue, the

           4  Texas Health Department says that about 85 percent of women

           5  are unaware that alcohol use during pregnancy can result in

           6  mentally retarded babies.  Alcohol is actually the number one

           7  cause of mental retardation in the Western Hemisphere.  The

           8  damage to the fetus is called fetal alcohol syndrome.  Since

           9  our State Legislature recently killed House Bill 12 which

          10  would have provided only a basic warning and since this agency

          11  is now profiting from alcohol promotions it falls squarely on

          12  you to warn your unsuspecting customers about fetal alcohol

          13  syndrome.  Of all the substances of abuse including heroin,

          14  cocaine, and marijuana, alcohol products are by far the most

          15  serious effects in the fetus resulting in lifelong disorders

          16  of memory function, impulse control and judgment.  Many

          17  children lack the facial abnormalities of the full syndrome

          18  but still suffer from the learning behavioral and other

          19  problems resulting from prenatal alcohol exposure.

          20                 FAS affects 1 percent of the babies in North

          21  America making alcohol the leading cause of brain damage

          22  today.  An estimated 3,700 babies are born in Texas each year

          23  with these alcohol-related problems.  The group of women at

          24  highest risk include women who have college degrees and women

          25  in households with incomes over $50,000.  The AMA plus U.S.


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           1  Department of Health says we should provide the general public

           2  more warnings about FAS.  Anheuser-Busch's first obligation is

           3  to its shareholders.  Surely your first obligation is to the

           4  citizens of Texas.  The information sources and even the

           5  product warning that you should adopt is spelled out in my

           6  handout.  Thanks very much.

           7                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Mr. Haire.  Are

           8  there any comments from the staff to Mr. Haire's remarks?  Are

           9  there any comments from the Commission?  Entertain a motion.

          10                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  So moved.

          11                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  A second?

          12                 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Second.

          13                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Excuse me, Ms. Chairman

          14  can I ask one question regarding the outdoor annual and its

          15  distribution.  Would you --

          16                 MR. McCARTY:  Yes.  The definition that you're

          17  asking to -- or you're being asked to develop here is

          18  specifically from in response to the legislative intent of the

          19  contracts that we have for publications.  And it specifically

          20  says that the Department cannot enter into a contract for a

          21  publication unless the contract includes a clause that allows

          22  us to request and receive an appropriate number of copies of

          23  the publication that contain advertising that is appropriate

          24  for viewing by youth.  And that the Commission shall adopt

          25  rules regarding to the types of advertising that is


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           1  appropriate for viewing for youth for those copies.  That's

           2  the intent of this is that it's specifically for those special

           3  copies that we request that we use in our programs that are --

           4  that are kid-related programs, our hunter education and those

           5  sort of programs.  The aside -- the aside from the normal

           6  production copies.

           7                 COMMISSIONER AVILA:  So in effect you're

           8  getting two sets?

           9                 MR. McCARTY:  That's right.  That's correct.

          10  And this definition you're setting up is -- defines what

          11  the -- what the -- what the specific sets that we can -- that

          12  we can request from the contract -- request and receive an

          13  appropriate number of the copies of the publication that

          14  contain advertising that is appropriate for viewing by youth.

          15                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Is that the legislative

          16  intent, how does that change what we have been doing.

          17                 MR. McCARTY:  Currently there is no contractual

          18  obligation to do that.  We're asking for that now, but we

          19  don't have a contractual obligation.  Sunset put it as a

          20  criteria of the contract.

          21                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  And the legislators

          22  understood that this would be on a portion of the --

          23                 MR. McCARTY:  Yes.  That was their intent.

          24                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Could you tell us again the --

          25  more or less the number or percentages of youths specific


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           1  outdoor annuals versus the general publication.

           2                 MR. McCARTY:  Right now we're getting about

           3  50,000 youth viewing that we use in our programs.  Is that --

           4  where's Lydia?

           5                 MS. SALDANA:  It's 100,000.

           6                 MR. McCARTY:  Okay.  It's 100,000.  We were

           7  getting 50, now we're getting 100,000 that we use in our

           8  programs all the way from Expo Hunter Education, Boater

           9  Education and the total production is 3.1 million?

          10                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  And you feel that that is a

          11  sufficient number to provide them adequately for our programs?

          12                 MR. McCARTY:  That covers our programs.

          13                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Okay.

          14                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  I guess one other

          15  question.  With respect to the advertising the outdoor annual,

          16  do we -- we don't have control over it totally; is that

          17  correct or do we?

          18                 MR. McCARTY:  We do not have control over that

          19  contractually at this point.

          20                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  So this is the maximum

          21  effort we can make in that regard as far as the numbers that

          22  will be published.

          23                 MR. McCARTY:  That's correct.

          24                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Okay.

          25                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any more questions from the


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           1  Commission?

           2                 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  I'm curious to the

           3  comment -- question about excluded children and issues here.

           4                 MR. McCARTY:  I'm not either, Mike.  Mike Ray

           5  may want to -- that was his program.

           6                 MR. RAY:  I'm Mike Ray.  Really the thing that

           7  I know about this is I believe the rules that the -- that

           8  Anheuser-Busch has to be under to be able to sponsor something

           9  like this does prohibit people from -- from being of ages less

          10  than 21 to be able to participate.  That's about all I can

          11  tell you in on that.  I believe it's a State or Federal law

          12  that makes this happen.

          13                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  When you say participate

          14  does that exclude being in attendance?  Can you be in

          15  attendance?

          16                 MR. RAY:  Yes.  Yes, you sure can.  Just as far

          17  as signing up for the program and to try to be of -- excuse

          18  me -- available for some of the prizes and things like that

          19  and to make that donation to us of those fish it officially

          20  has to be done by somebody that's 21 years old.

          21                 MR. COOK:  Madame Chairman, I believe that

          22  Lydia has also been working with the contract issues and she

          23  may have some knowledge on this.

          24                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Okay.

          25                 MS. SALDANA:  I'm Lydia Saldana, Director of


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           1  Communications.  This program was begun a few years ago with

           2  being sponsored by Anheuser-Busch and I might point out that

           3  it would not exist without those sponsorship dollars.  When we

           4  created the program we were very mindful of making sure that

           5  those programs that are sponsored are appropriate to be tied

           6  into Anheuser-Busch.  And that is one of the reasons why the

           7  requirements were set up so that it is, you know, adults only.

           8                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  But again, excuse me,

           9  Lydia, but can you have nonadults present at those meetings?

          10                 MS. SALDANA:  Yes, yes and of course...

          11                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  They just can't be

          12  officially enrolled as you might say, but they can attend.

          13                 MS. SALDANA:  Correct.  Correct.  And that is

          14  of course up to the parents whether they feel that it's

          15  appropriate for their children to be at the event.

          16                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  So they make the decision

          17  as to whether they should be exposed to whatever they might

          18  experience at that particular event?

          19                 MS. SALDANA:  Absolutely.

          20                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  We put it back to the

          21  parents.

          22                 MS. SALDANA:  Absolutely.

          23                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Commissioner Fitzsimons?

          24                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Just so I'm clear,

          25  Lydia, this doesn't in any way -- this proposal doesn't in any


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           1  way restrict our ability to continue the programs we have

           2  Outdoor Kids, Co-op, the Community Outdoor Outreach program,

           3  Kid Fish, Texas Youth Hunting, any of that?

           4                 MS. SALDANA:  No, sir.  No, sir.

           5                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Thank you.  Thank

           6  you.

           7                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any more comments

           8  from the Commission?  Is there a motion on this item?

           9                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  I move.  I renew my motion

          10  for approval.  Thank you.

          11                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Second.

          12                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Commissioner Ramos.

          13  Commissioner Angelo.  All in favor say aye.

          14                 ("Aye")

          15                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any opposed?  Hearing none the

          16  motion carries.

          17   "TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION adopts new 31 TAC

          18   Section 51.165-51.168 (located in Exhibit A), concerning

          19   nonprofit partners, employee fundraising, and

          20   youth-appropriate advertising as published in the December

          21   14, 2001 issue of the Texas Register (26 TexReg 10228)."

          22   AGENDA ITEM NO. 7:  ACTION - LAND TRANSFER

          23                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The next item is an action

          24  item Land Transfer.  Walt Dabney will present.

          25                 MR. DABNEY:  Chairman and Commissioners, I'm


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           1  Walt Dabney, State Park Director.  Before I begin my remarks,

           2  we had a very successful annual State Park meeting recently

           3  and I want to thank the Chairman and Commissioner Angelo and

           4  Commissioner Fitzsimons for coming by to see us and to speak

           5  to us, spend a little time with our troops.  It meant a whole

           6  lot to them, and I want to tell Commissioner Angelo

           7  personally, contrary to my remarks at the previous Commission

           8  meeting, if anybody wants to have an annual meeting that

           9  Midland is a wonderful place in January to have one.  We had a

          10  good time and people were very hospitable up there.

          11                 I'm here to speak about House Bill 2108 briefly

          12  and a potential transfer of a State Park site Lake Rita Blanca

          13  up by Dalhart.  The consideration of Lake Rita Blanca would be

          14  under House Bill 2108 which gave the Department the ability to

          15  review sites within our system and to advise local

          16  subdivisions, counties, and cities that there is an

          17  opportunity if they felt that they could operate the site as

          18  well if it were in close proximity or within that

          19  jurisdiction, that we could enter into a dialogue to see if it

          20  made sense for them to operate the site instead of the State.

          21  We have -- you have approved three of those in the past.

          22  Public Lake Landmark, Old Fort Parker and the Jim Hogg site at

          23  Rusk.  Those are either done or in the process of being

          24  transferred to those jurisdictions.  The facility transfer of

          25  Lake Rita Blanca would -- Lake Rita Blanca is the northern


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           1  most park side that we have.  We got that in -- it's about

           2  1,688 acres.  It actually still belongs to the Counties of

           3  Dallam and Hartley.  We had a 101-year lease on the place.  We

           4  got that 1995.  We don't really have any facilities other than

           5  day use there and no plans to do extensive development of that

           6  site.  The City of Dalhart does in fact has requested that we

           7  enter into negotiations with them to transfer the site to fix

           8  it up.  What we're asking for today is that you would approve

           9  us to enter into negotiations with the City of Dalhart.  We

          10  would put a contract together as we have in these other sites

          11  and if we can resolve this and agree upon that, we would go

          12  ahead and execute a contract with them and transfer that site

          13  to their jurisdiction for perpetual operation and maintenance

          14  of the site.  It has to continue to be used for park purposes.

          15  It can't be sold off or anything else.  So what we're asking

          16  for today is to negotiate such a contract for the transfer of

          17  this site to the City of Dalhart, Texas.

          18                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any questions or

          19  comments from the Commission on this item?  We have no one

          20  signed up to speak.  So do I have a motion?

          21                 MR. AVILA:  So move.

          22                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Second?

          23                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Second.

          24                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Motion by Commissioner Avila,

          25  second by Commissioner Fitzsimons.  All in favor?


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           1                 ("Aye")

           2                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any opposed?  Hearing none,

           3  motion carries.

           4   "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps

           5   necessary to negotiate the transfers and enter into project

           6   agreements for the Lake Rita Blanca State Park site."

           7   AGENDA ITEM NO. 8:  BRIEFING - RECREATIONAL METAL DETECTING

           8                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Mr. Dabney, you make the next

           9  presentation as well.  Item No. 8 is a briefing item on

          10  recreational metal detecting.

          11                 (Whereupon a briefing was presented to the

          12                 Commission, the following proceedings were

          13                 heard:)

          14   AGENDA ITEM NO. 9:  ACTION - LOCAL PARK FUNDING

          15                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  This is a briefing item, I

          16  believe, so we will move on to the next item on the agenda an

          17  action item, Local Park Funding.  Mr. Hogsett.

          18                 MR. HOGSETT:  Good morning.  Madame Chairman,

          19  Members of the Commission, I'm Tim Hogsett from the Recreation

          20  Grants Branch of the State Parks Division.  This item is a

          21  proposal for funding for outdoor recreation grants.  It would

          22  be one of the two annual awards that you would be making.

          23                 In this particular review we received 39

          24  applications by the July 31st, 2001 deadline requesting

          25  $16,271,090 in matching funds assistance.  We rank ordered all


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           1  of these projects, performed site visits, using our scoring

           2  system these are rank ordered and that is your Exhibit A.  And

           3  we are recommending approval of the top 13 applications in the

           4  amount of $5,750,962 in matching funds which is the amount

           5  that we currently have available.  And the proposed

           6  recommendation is funding for the projects listed in Exhibit A

           7  in the amount of $5,750,962 is approved as described for

           8  individual projects in Exhibit B.  And I would be happy to

           9  answer any questions.

          10                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do you-all have any questions

          11  of Mr. Hogsett?  We have some members of the audience signed

          12  up to speak.  Andrea Warren and then Francisco Bazan.

          13                 MS. WARREN:  Good morning.  My name Andrea

          14  Warren.  I'm the Parks and Recreation Director for the City of

          15  Angleton.  I would just like to start off by thanking Texas

          16  Parks and Wildlife for providing this program for cities to

          17  apply for these grants.  Ten years ago we applied for one and

          18  received it and were able to build a very nice soccer complex

          19  that being used by not only Angleton residents but also the

          20  surrounding Brazoria County.  Last July we applied for another

          21  grant for Bates Park and Dickie Park in Angleton.

          22  Unfortunately we found out last week we weren't being

          23  recommended for funding.  We were the 14th person and missed

          24  it by just one point.  We are optimistic, though, that after

          25  meeting with the Texas Parks and Wildlife staff and going over


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           1  our application that we can resubmit it in February and

           2  hopefully I'll be back in July with a positive recommendation

           3  for funding.  Citizens in Angleton are very excited about this

           4  new park coming in.  We're gonna be providing opportunities

           5  for all age groups in Angleton, playgrounds for the little

           6  kids, a walking trail for adults and senior citizens.  Our

           7  softball association is excited about two new softball fields

           8  that are coming in.  They've been growing every year.  We

           9  also -- it's going do be situated between an elementary school

          10  and a junior high as well as a nursing home so they'll be able

          11  to get to the facility very easily to use the recreation

          12  facilities.  Again I hope I'm back in July with a positive

          13  recommendation.  I thank the Texas Parks and Wildlife for

          14  providing this program.

          15                 Thank you.

          16                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you Andrea.  Francisco

          17  Bazan.

          18                 MR. BAZAN:  Madame Chairman and board members,

          19  my name is Francisco Bazan from Nueces County.  I'm the

          20  chairman for the Parks and Recreation.  We do have some

          21  presentation grants in front of you that we would like for you

          22  to consider when you do.  What they will be doing for the

          23  community and for the quality of life that we -- that will

          24  surround itself if you for some reason consider us for this

          25  grants that are in front of you.  I'm mainly here to say that


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           1  I would like to thank all of you if given the opportunity and

           2  of course the consideration on these grants for the

           3  improvement of the quality of life that we have in Nueces

           4  County.

           5                 Thank you very much.

           6                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Chris Lawrence and

           7  then Tom Watson.

           8                 MR. LAWRENCE:  Madame Chairman, members of the

           9  Commission, I would just echo my superior's comments before

          10  and thank you for this program.  Thank you for your

          11  consideration of our applications today and in the past.  We

          12  look forward to working with you in any way we can.

          13                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Mr. Watson.

          14                 MR. WATSON:  I'm Tom Watson from Nueces County

          15  and this program has allowed the people of Nueces County to

          16  have a future of quality of life as my chairman has stated to

          17  you, but what he didn't state was it has been 35 or 40 years

          18  since that part of the county has had this opportunity.  And

          19  we thank you if you vote in our favor, we thank you very much

          20  for this opportunity and we hope that this program continues

          21  in the future.

          22                 Thank you.

          23                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Is it Mitzi Davis

          24  from the City of Farmers Branch.

          25                 MS. DAVIS:  Hi.  I am Mitzi Davis from the City


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           1  of Farmers Branch, assistant to the Director.  I would also

           2  like to thank you for this wonderful program that you have.

           3  We look forward to working with you in the future.  We've

           4  applied also and we're just very satisfied with the funding we

           5  have for all the cities and all that you provide throughout

           6  the State of Texas.

           7                 Thank you.

           8                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Do we have any

           9  comments from the Commission?  Is there a motion for approval?

          10                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  So moved.

          11                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Second?

          12                 COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Second.

          13                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We have a motion by

          14  Commissioner Fitzsimons and a second by Commissioner Avila.

          15  All in favor say aye.

          16                 ("Aye")

          17                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any opposed?  Hearing none

          18  motion carries.

          19   "Funding for projects listed in Exhibit A in the amount of

          20   $5,750,962 is approved, as described for individual projects

          21   in Exhibit B."

          22   AGENDA ITEM NO. 10:  ACTION - INDOOR RECREATION GRANTS

          23                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next item is also an action

          24  item, Indoor Recreation Grants.  Mr. Hogsett.

          25                 MR. HOGSETT:  Madame Chair, Members of the


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           1  Commission, I'm Tim Hogsett Recreation Grants Program in the

           2  State Parks Division.  This is proposed funding for indoor

           3  recreation grants.  We take applications once a year with the

           4  application deadline of July 31st.  By this deadline of July

           5  31st we've received 22 applications requesting approximately

           6  $13.5 million.  We have a scoring system that we use to

           7  evaluate these projects as well.  The projects are scored and

           8  rank ordered for you with that system in Exhibit A, and we

           9  will be recommending funding for the top six applications in

          10  the amount of $3,325,000 which is the amount of money we

          11  currently have available for that program.  The recommendation

          12  for the record is funding for the projects listed in Exhibit A

          13  in the amount of $3,325,000 is approved as described for

          14  individual projects in Exhibit B.  I'd be glad to answer any

          15  questions you have.

          16                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any questions from

          17  the Commission?  We have no one signed up to speak on this so

          18  do I have a motion.

          19                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  I move approval.

          20                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Mr. Angelo moves.

          21                 Do I have a second?

          22                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Second.

          23                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor, please say aye.

          24  Oh, are we short?  We'll have to wait one second.  We lack a

          25  quorum.


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           1                 COMMISSIONER AVILA:  He said yes.

           2                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  He said yes.  Is that okay?

           3  Does that count, Mr. McCarty?  All in favor have said aye.  No

           4  opposed, hearing none, motion carries.

           5   "Funding for projects listed in Exhibit A in the amount of

           6   $3,325,000 is approved as described for individual projects

           7   in Exhibit B."

           8   AGENDA ITEM NO. 11:  ACTION - TEXAS RECREATION AND PARKS

           9   ACCOUNT ADOPTION OF RULES

          10                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next is Item 11 is also an

          11  action item.  A small community grant project and regional

          12  parks grants, again Mr. Hogsett.

          13                 MR. HOGSETT:  This is something that I'm very

          14  pleased to bring before you this morning.  It's the initiation

          15  of two new programs under our grant umbrella.  We have over

          16  the last couple of years conducted pilot grant programs for

          17  small communities grants and for regional park grants.  And

          18  we're asking you today to consider making these permanent

          19  programs, a permanent quiver in our group of arrows that we

          20  can hopefully help continue to assist local governments.

          21                 You have the authority to adopt rules and to

          22  take this action in Chapter 24 of the Parks and Wildlife Code.

          23  And as I said, the proposal today is to take the two pilot

          24  programs small communities, small grants and regional park

          25  grants and make them into permanent programs by adopting rules


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           1  for Chapter 24 of the Code.

           2                 To ensure that we were doing what the public

           3  wanted us to do, we held a series of six public hearings.

           4  Actually there were 12 hearings.  We did six hearings in the

           5  morning at each location for small communities grants and then

           6  a separate hearing in the afternoon at each of these locations

           7  for the regional park grant program.  A little background on

           8  the small communities small projects program, pilot.  The idea

           9  was to make approximately $500,000 which is the equivalent of

          10  one of our normal outdoor recreation grants available to small

          11  communities.  We heard consistently over the lasts few years

          12  as we did other public hearings that one of the things that

          13  was a problem for small communities is they felt that if they

          14  were only applying for one item or only wanted a small amount

          15  of money that they could not be competitive in the larger

          16  program.  So the idea behind the pilot was to set aside this

          17  $500,000, request applications from local governments of a

          18  population of 50,000 or less, make available then 50 percent

          19  matching grants to those small communities not to exceed

          20  $50,000.  We hope that our application process was simple.  We

          21  did it as a pilot.  We took applications, after a very short

          22  period of time that they had to submit applications.  We had

          23  established a deadline of April the 15th of 2001.  And within

          24  just a couple of months before that people were able to put

          25  together 64 applications requesting almost $2.3 million.  That


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           1  was quite a surprise to us that there were that many

           2  applications received in that short of a period of time.

           3                 We asked the Commission and you've approved

           4  projects for 12 of those 64 in the amount of $541,660 that was

           5  last August.  Subsequent to that we did these public hearings.

           6  The issues that we put forward in the public hearings were

           7  population limit, one of the things that we heard fairly

           8  consistently in these public hearings was that possibly a

           9  population ceiling for applicants of 50,000 might be a bit too

          10  high.  In fact, you can see from the results of the pilot that

          11  of the 64 applications that we received proposals from that 57

          12  of those were from communities of 20,000 or less and in the

          13  average population of those applicants was 9,000.

          14                 The other eligibility issue that was out there

          15  was the eligibility of land acquisition to be used as match

          16  for the program.  In the initial pilot we did not allow land

          17  acquisition.  The thinking was that at a maximum grant of

          18  $50,000 that possibly that would so dilute projects that it

          19  really wouldn't make sense.  Well, the public told us fairly

          20  loud and clear that there were cases where potential donations

          21  might occur of property and that if those could be allowed to

          22  be used as local match, that it made sense to do that and that

          23  that should be a thing that we should consider if we adopt

          24  this as a permanent program.

          25                 The other administration issues related to


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           1  small communities was the application amount, cap of $50,000.

           2  Almost all of the applicants requested the maximum in the

           3  pilot.  We wanted to ensure that the guidelines were easy to

           4  understand.  We asked about how often we should take

           5  applications and the consensus seemed to be that we do it once

           6  a year.  So in adopting the pilot as a permanent program, the

           7  proposed changes that we are making as a staff for you to

           8  consider are reducing the population eligibility from 50,000

           9  to 20,000.  We would however ask that in the case of county

          10  governments who are larger as a whole county than 20,000 where

          11  there are unincorporated areas which are less than 20,000

          12  within those counties, that that county be allowed to sponsor

          13  an application under this program.  An example might be one of

          14  the Colonias in El Paso County.  Obviously El Paso County is

          15  much larger than 20,000.  But those unincorporated areas truly

          16  need services and the only opportunity they would have would

          17  be through their county government.  We ask that as we heard

          18  from the public that we be allowed to use the value of donated

          19  property as part of the sponsored match.  And finally as an

          20  incentive for really small communities, that we give a few

          21  additional priority points in our scoring system for

          22  communities of 2,000 or less.

          23                 Moving on to the regional park grant program.

          24  Regional park grants were an outgrowth of a study that was

          25  done by Texas A&M a couple years ago.  It was a statewide


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           1  assessment of some of the recreation, outdoor recreation needs

           2  in Texas.  One of the things that that study found was that

           3  there is a need in the urban areas of the state for either

           4  projects related to conservation or intense recreational use.

           5  And that those be done through partnerships between

           6  governments.  The bottom line is that it there are certain

           7  kinds of facilities and certain types of conservation projects

           8  that may not be able to be accomplished by one individual

           9  sponsor.  But by coming together, several sponsors would be

          10  able to come forward with a program that would be able to be

          11  done effectively.  We've taken two pilot grant application

          12  submissions and you have awarded two pilot awards.  The first

          13  one June of 2000 four projects in the amount of $3 million.

          14  And then in April of 2001, $3.1 million for three projects.

          15  The common theme among all these projects is that they are

          16  very conservation oriented.  With the exception of McAllen

          17  project, all of them involve green belt and streamway corridor

          18  preservation and McAllen is going to be a facility related to

          19  the World Birding Center.

          20                 Again when we went to the public hearings we

          21  asked about administrative issues related to the application

          22  cap, whether there should be an amount of money that would be

          23  the maximum you could apply for.  We had heard fairly

          24  consistently that, no, that we would like -- the public would

          25  like to see this as an open-ended program.  The amount,


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           1  application deadlines, whether the guidelines were easy to

           2  understand, how often applications should be taken, and

           3  whether web site accessibility was appropriate.

           4                 Boiling all of this down what we heard, what

           5  was posted in the Texas Register, the fact that there were no

           6  comments in the Texas Register related to this regional park

           7  grant program, the recommendations are fairly simple.  That we

           8  in our scoring criteria that we used in the pilot program,

           9  that we now give priority to projects which involve publicly

          10  owned nonpark land which is going to be used as part of the

          11  local match.  And that we give priorities to projects that

          12  have a significant natural resource conservation element.

          13                 The recommendation of the staff is that the

          14  Texas Recreation and Parks Account Program Grants Manual as

          15  amended at Exhibit A and the Texas Recreation Parks Account

          16  Small Communities and Regional Park Grant Programs Project

          17  Priorities Scoring Systems as found in Exhibit B are adopted

          18  as rules for the Texas Recreation and Parks Account Program.

          19  I would be glad to answer any questions you have.

          20                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any questions from

          21  the Commission?  We have one person signed up to speak.  M.F.

          22  Johnson.

          23                 MS. JOHNSON:  My problem is I was supposed to

          24  speak for 10.

          25                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  It says here No. 11, but


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           1  please --

           2                 MS. JOHNSON:  I know.  That's my fault.  I'm

           3  new to this.

           4                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Ms. Johnson, please come up.

           5                 MS. JOHNSON:  Thank you so much.

           6                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  While you're coming up, I want

           7  to welcome M.F. and I see that her husband Bill Johnson is

           8  here.  It's been 35 years since I've seen you.  I'll never

           9  forget the day I arrived at Camp Longhorn as a very young, I

          10  think eight-year old Wrensy and very homesick that was more

          11  than 35 years ago, I hate to say.  But Bill and M.F. Johnson

          12  have been important to many many people's lives in Texas

          13  and --

          14                 MR. JOHNSON:  I've been wearing this for

          15  longer.

          16                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Oh, my goodness.  Anyway, I

          17  promise that my warm feelings towards you will not bias me in

          18  any way about what you're here to represent, but welcome and

          19  it's wonderful to see you looking so well -- both of you.

          20                 MS. JOHNSON:  Thank you very, very much.

          21  Commissioners I was 25, my husband and I were 25 and we caught

          22  the vision.  We were an unincorporated village of 400.  We

          23  added to that population since we were newly wed.  However, I

          24  want to tell you that I thought my tombstone would read she

          25  died trying.  But instead if this is favorably looked upon,


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           1  the passing of this for the Wimberley Community Center, we can

           2  put something else on there.  It will be "at a way to go."

           3                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  At a way.

           4                 MS. JOHNSON:  Which our Commission will

           5  understand.  The bottom line is that now Wimberley is

           6  incorporated and now we have 9,000 families out of the post

           7  office, according to the Chamber of Commerce.  We've got to

           8  keep those people off the streets.  The ones that love to meet

           9  and gather together, keep the idea of community.  I hope all

          10  of you know Wimberley.  Do come to visit.  Don't stay.  Thank

          11  you.

          12                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Do we have any

          13  further questions on Agenda Item No. 11?

          14                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Do you have the

          15  lodging grant it's in that set of Wimberley worked out.

          16                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I don't hear any comments from

          17  the Commission.  Do I have a motion?

          18                 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  So moved.

          19                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Second?

          20                 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Second.

          21                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I have a motion by

          22  Commissioner Angelo, a second by Commissioner Montgomery.  All

          23  in favor say aye.

          24                 ("Aye")

          25                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any opposed?  Hearing none,


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           1  motion carries.

           2   "It is established as a rule for the Texas Recreation and

           3   Parks Account Program that the Texas Recreation and Parks

           4   Account Grants Manual as amended, as contained in Exhibit A,

           5   is adopted for administration of the Texas Recreation and

           6   Parks Account recreation grants program, as described in

           7   Chapter 24 of the Parks and Wildlife Code."

           8   "It is established as a rule for the Texas Recreation and

           9   Parks Account Program that the Texas Recreation and Parks

          10   Account Small Communities and Regional Park Grant Programs

          11   Project Priority Scoring Systems, as contained in Exhibit B,

          12   are adopted for evaluating and prioritizing grant

          13   applications requesting grant assistance, as described in the

          14   Texas Recreation and Parks Account Grants Manual."

          15                 MR. HOGSETT:  Thank you.

          16   AGENDA ITEM NO. 12:  ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - UVALDE

          17   COUNTY (GARNER STATE PARK)

          18                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next item is a land

          19  acquisition in Uvalde County.  Karen Leslie will present.

          20                 MS. LESLIE:  Good morning.  I'm Karen Leslie,

          21  project planner in Land Conservation.  Madame Chairman and

          22  Commissioners, this item was discussed in executive session

          23  yesterday.  The item summarizes the discussion regarding

          24  Garner State Park.  The property contains 127 acres and

          25  protects the park's river frontage.  Staff recommends the


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           1  Commission consider the motion to acquire the property as an

           2  addition to the park.  Any questions?

           3                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any questions from

           4  the Commission?  We have no one -- is this an action item or

           5  is this just --

           6                 MS. LESLIE:  It's an action item.

           7                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  It's an action item.

           8                 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  We have to move

           9  approval.

          10                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Can we move approval?

          11                 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Yes.

          12                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We need a second.

          13                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second.

          14                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Okay.  We have a motion from

          15  Mr. Montgomery and a second from Commissioner Ramos.  All in

          16  favor.

          17                 ("Aye")

          18                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Opposed?

          19                 MS. LESLIE:  Thank you.

          20   "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps

          21   necessary to consummate the acquisition of approximately 127

          22   acres in Uvalde County as an addition to Garner State Park."

          23   AGENDA ITEM NO. 13:  ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - BREWSTER

          24   COUNTY (BLACK GAP WMA)

          25                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Our next item is also land


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           1  acquisition in Brewster County.  Jack Bauer presents.

           2                 MR. BAUER:  Madam Chairman and Commissioners,

           3  my name is Jack Bauer, Director of the Land Conservation

           4  program.  This item represents a land acquisition

           5  recommendation at the Black Gap Wildlife Management Area in

           6  Brewster County.  As you are aware, since 1997 we've had an

           7  active program of the purchase of inholdings and habitat in

           8  support of the dessert bighorn sheep restoration program.  And

           9  this time staff recommends the Commission consider the motion

          10  before you to acquire three tracts totaling 1,340 acres as

          11  habitat additions at Black Gap.  I would be happy to answer

          12  any questions.

          13                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there any questions from

          14  the Commission?

          15                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  These are all

          16  inholdings, correct?

          17                 MR. BAUER:  That's correct.

          18                 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Within the boundary

          19  of the Wildlife Management Area.

          20                 MR. BAUER:  Yes, sir.

          21                 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Move approval.

          22                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Second?

          23                 COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second.

          24                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?

          25                 ("Aye")


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           1                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Opposed?  The motion carries.

           2  Thank you, Jack.

           3   "The Executive Director is authorized to take all necessary

           4   steps to acquire approximately 1,340 acres in three tracts

           5   from willing sellers in Brewster County as habitat additions

           6   to the Black Gap Wildlife Management Area."

           7                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any other business

           8  to come before the Commission today?

           9                 MR. COOK:  No, ma'am.

          10                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Mr. Cook, is if there is no

          11  other business today, we declare ourselves adjourned.

          12                 MR. COOK:  Thank you.

          13                 CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you all very much.

          14

          15

          16

          17

          18

          19

          20

          21

          22

          23

          24

          25


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           1   THE STATE OF TEXAS )

           2   COUNTY OF TRAVIS  )

           3        I, KIM SEIBERT, a Certified Court Reporter in and for

           4   the State of Texas, do hereby certify that the above and

           5   foregoing pages constitute a full, true, and correct

           6   transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and Wildlife

           7   Commission on January 17, 2002, in the Commission hearing

           8   room of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex,

           9   Austin, Travis County, Texas.

          10        I FURTHER CERTIFY that a stenographic record was made by

          11   me at the time of the public meeting and said stenographic

          12   notes were thereafter reduced to computerized transcription

          13   under my supervision and control.

          14        WITNESS MY HAND this ____ day of ____________________,

          15   2002.

          16

          17

          18                      ___________________________
                                  KIM SEIBERT, Texas CSR 4589
          19                      Expiration Date:  12/2002
                                  3101 Bee Caves Road
          20                      Suite 220, Centre II
                                  Austin, Texas  78701
          21                      (512) 328-5557

          22

          23

          24

          25


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           1

           2

           3

           4   ___________________________
               KATHARINE ARMSTRONG IDSAL, CHAIRMAN
           5

           6   ___________________________
               DONATO D. RAMOS
           7

           8   ___________________________
               PHILIP MONTGOMERY, III
           9

          10   ___________________________
               JOSEPH FITZSIMONS
          11

          12   ___________________________
               ERNEST ANGELO, JR.
          13

          14   ___________________________
               JOHN AVILA, JR.
          15

          16   ___________________________
               ALVIN L. HENRY, Absent
          17

          18   ___________________________
               MARK E. WATSON, JR., Absent
          19

          20

          21

          22

          23

          24

          25


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.


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