Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Public Hearing

April 5, 2001

Commission Hearing Room
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
  
             6             BE IT REMEMBERED that heretofore on the 
             7    5TH day of APRIL 2001, there came on to be heard 
             8    matters under the regulatory authority of the 
             9    Parks and Wildlife  Commission of Texas, in the 
            10    commission hearing room of the Texas Parks and 
            11    Wildlife Headquarters complex, Austin, Travis 
            12    County, Texas, beginning at 9:10 a.m., to wit:
            13    
            14    
                  APPEARANCES:
            15    THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
                  
            16       Lee M. Bass, Fort Worth, Texas, Chairman
                     Dick W. Heath, Carrollton, Texas
            17       Nolan Ryan, Alvin, Texas
                     Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas
            18       John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas
                     Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas
            19       Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas
                     Katharine Armstrong Idsal, San Antonio, Texas
            20       Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas
                  
            21    THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT:
                     Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director, and other 
            22    personnel of the Parks and Wildlife Department.
                  
            23    
            24    
            25    
. 0002
             1    OTHER APPEARANCES:
                  
             2    NAME/ORGANIZATION   MATTER OF INTEREST
                  
             3    Mr. David Bailey, Traditional Bowhunters of TX, 
                  POB 392, Franklin, TX  77856   #2-ACTION-2001-2001 
             4    Statewide Hunting & Fishing Proclamation 
                  (nonsupportive)
             5    
                  Mr. Paul Hodges, Lone Star Bowhunting Assn, 
             6    314 Turnstone, Buda, TX  78610  
                  #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing 
             7    Proclamation (nonsupportive) (youth hunting 
                  proposal)
             8    
                  Mr. Kevin Hilbig, Lone Star Bowhunters Assn,
             9    4905 FM 535 Cedar Creek, TX     
                  #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing 
            10    Proclamation (supportive)
                  
            11    Mr. Kelly Garmon, 4420 CR 406 Taylor, TX  76574 
                  #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing
            12    Proclamation (nonsupportive)
                  
            13    Mr. Danny Evans, 1817 Parkside Lane Austin, TX  
                  78745   #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & 
            14    Fishing Proclamation (nonsupportive)
                  
            15    Mr. Tomme Actkinson, Lone Star Bowhunter 
                  Association, 3002 Magnolia Temple, TX  76502     
            16    #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing 
                  Proclamation (supportive) 
            17    
                  Mr. Joseph Simone IV, 8214 Riptide Houston, TX  
            18    77072   #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & 
                  Fishing Proclamation (nonsupportive)
            19    
                  Mr. Joseph Simone III, 8214 Riptide Houston, TX  
            20    77072    #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & 
                  Fishing Proclamation (nonsupportive)
            21    
                  Mr. Ellis Gilleland, Texas Animals, PO Box 9001, 
            22    Austin, TX  78766   #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide 
                  Hunting & Fishing Proclamation (nonsupportive) 
            23    #5-ACTION-Amendments to the Public Lands 
                  Proclamation and Proposed Hunting Activities on 
            24    State Parks (nonsupportive)   #16-Other Business 
                  (nonsupportive)
            25    
                  
. 0003
             1    Mr. John C. Oneken, PO Box 151, Barker, TX  77413 
                  #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing
             2    Proclamation
                  
             3    Mr. Walt Glasscock, Texas Sportsmans Association, 
                  408 Shirley Oaks Dr., Columbus, TX  78934 
             4    #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing 
                  Proclamation
             5     
                  Mr. David K. Langford, TWA   #2-ACTION-2001-2001 
             6    Statewide Hunting & Fishing Proclamation 
                  (supportive)  #5-ACTION-Amendments to the Public 
             7    Lands Proclamation and Proposed Hunting Activities 
                  on State Parks 
             8    
                  Mr. Pete Jamieson, City of Arlington Park & 
             9    Recreation, PO Box 231 Arlington, TX  76004-0231    
                  10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive) 
            10    
                  Mr. Dale Bransford San Antonio Parks and 
            11    Recreation Dept., PO Box 839966, San Antonio, TX 
                  78283 #10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding 
            12    (supportive)
                  
            13    Mr. Ed Sebesta, League City, City Council 
                  #10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive)
            14    
                  Ms. Rhonda Cyrus, League City Clear Creek Nature 
            15    Park, 1977 Austin St, League City, TX  77873 
                  #10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive)
            16    
                  Ms. Barbara Meeks, League City Parks Board, 2401 
            17    Intrepid Way, League City, TX  77573   
                  #10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive)
            18    
                  Ms. Debbie MacDonald, City of League City, 2118 
            19    Dublindrie, League City, TX  77573   
                  #10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive)
            20    
            21    
            22    
            23    
            24    
            25    
. 0004
             1                       APRIL 5, 2001
             2                     MORNING SESSION: 
             3                         *-*-*-*-*
             4                      PUBLIC HEARING
             5                         *-*-*-*-*
             6    
             7                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Good morning.  
             8    Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to call this 
             9    meeting of the Texas Parks and Wildlife meeting to 
            10    order.  We have -- Commissioner Ryan is en route 
            11    but will be here shortly, and we'll go ahead and 
            12    get started.  Mr. Sansom, would you please read 
            13    our opening statement.
            14                  MR. SANSOM:  Mr. Chairman and 
            15    members of the Commission, a public notice of this 
            16    meeting containing all items on its proposed 
            17    agenda has been filed in the office of the 
            18    Secretary of State as required by Chapter 551 of 
            19    the Government Code.  This is referred to as the 
            20    Open Meetings Law, and I would like for this 
            21    action to be noted in the official record of the 
            22    meeting. 
            23                  Ladies and gentlemen, we welcome you 
            24    here this morning.  We are very glad you have come 
            25    to participate in our commission meetings.  As you 
. 0005
             1    know, the chairman is in charge of the meeting, 
             2    and I normally assist him in as much as I can.  
             3    One of my duties is as sergeant at arms. 
             4                  I wanted to remind you that we have 
             5    sign-up cards out in the hall.  And if you wish to 
             6    speak today, you must sign a card because the 
             7    chairman will call your names to come forward from 
             8    the cards one at a time.  Each person will be 
             9    allowed to speak from the podium.  And when your 
            10    name is called, just come to the podium, state 
            11    your name and whom you represent if it's someone 
            12    other than yourself. 
            13                  In that we've got a lot of folks 
            14    here today that would like to speak, the Chairman 
            15    may also call the second person in line and sort 
            16    of have you on deck, so, if you would come forward 
            17    and stand at the back of the audience, then we can 
            18    move the meeting along in an orderly fashion.  
            19    Everybody will have three minutes to speak, which 
            20    is our normal practice.  I'll keep track of the 
            21    time with this kind of traffic clock here and 
            22    notify you when your three minutes are up. 
            23                  When your time is up, please take 
            24    your seat again so that others can have an 
            25    opportunity.  If a Commissioner asks you a 
. 0006
             1    question or if they talk among themselves, then 
             2    that will not be counted against your three 
             3    minutes. 
             4                  So one thing that we want to make 
             5    sure of is that everyone conduct themselves in a 
             6    professional manner.  Because really argumentative 
             7    or critical comments are not -- have no place in 
             8    our meetings.  So we ask that you show proper 
             9    respect for our Commissioners, for our staff and 
            10    for other members of the audience.
            11                  If you have anything you'd like to 
            12    submit to the Commissioners for them to look at, 
            13    please hand it to Ms. Lori Estrada here on my 
            14    right, and she will make sure that the 
            15    Commissioners get it.  Once again, we appreciate 
            16    your coming today and look forward to your 
            17    participation in the meeting. 
            18                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  The 
            19    minutes from our previous meeting have been 
            20    distributed.  Are there any comments or 
            21    corrections from the Commission?  Ms. Dinkins, do 
            22    you have any this time? 
            23                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Not this time.
            24                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  You're usually the 
            25    one with the sharp eye.
. 0007
             1                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  They're okay 
             2    with Carol?  Then I'll move. 
             3                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  We have a motion? 
             4                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  I'll second.
             5                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  A motion and a 
             6    second.  All in favor?  Any proposed?  Thank you. 
             7                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
             8                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  And also the list of 
             9    gifts that have been received by the department 
            10    since our last meeting have been distributed as 
            11    well.  Are there any questions or comments on 
            12    those or a motion for acceptance? 
            13                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:   Move 
            14    acceptance. 
            15                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Have a motion.
            16                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  Second.
            17                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Have a second.  All 
            18    in favor?  Hearing none opposed, so move.
            19                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
            20              TPWD DONATIONS OF $500 OR MORE
                     (Donors are listed in the following order: 
            21       Donor; Description; Purpose of Donation)
                  
            22     (1)San Jacinto Museum of History Assn; CASH; 
                      Jacinto Battleground SHP
            23     (2)San Angelo Chamber of Commerce; Shuttle  
                      Trailer; San Angelo State Park
            24     (3)Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation; Lodging, 
                      Meeting Accommodations, Catering; FY99 Student 
            25        Internship Program
                  
. 0008
             1     (4)Galveston Island Convention & Visitors  
                      Bureau; CASH; Great Texas Birding Classic
             2     (5)Monument Hill & Kreische brewery Docent  
                      Organization; Lights, decorations, 
             3        refreshments; Trail of Lights and Early German 
                      Christmas
             4     (6)Texas Bighorn Society; Radio telemetry  
                      collars; Restoration of desert bighorn sheep
             5     (7)March for Parks of Commerce Texas; Lumber, 
                      insulation, windows, doors, hardware;   
             6        Remodeling of existing shelter
                   (8)Dow Agrosciences; Glyphomax herbicide NFWF     
             7        Challenge; Grant criteria
                   (9)Powell Park Marina; CASH; Sam Rayburn Economic
             8        Project
                  (10)Lufkin Convention Visitors Bureau of the   
             9        Angelina County Chamber of Commerce; CASH     
                      Sam Rayburn Economic Project
            10    (11)The Fishing Schools; CASH; Sam Rayburn  
                      Economic Project
            11    (12)Donohue Industries, Inc.; CASH; Sam Rayburn 
                      Economic Project
            12    (13)City of Jasper; CASH; Sam Rayburn Economic  
                      Project 
            13    (14)Angelina County Chamber of Commerce; CASH    
                      Sam Rayburn Economic Project
            14    (15)Texas Wildlife Association; Ammunition; Youth 
                      Shooting Sports, Chaparral WMA
            15    (16)Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation; CASH; 
                      Sheldon Lake Environmental Education Center 
            16    (17)Texas Bighorn Society; Food; Desert Bighorn 
                      Sheep Project
            17    (18)Julius & Marilyne Crill Dieckert; Six Sections
                      of Land; To contribute to outdoor resources 
            18    (19)Ed Rachal Foundation; Mobile radios & 
                      accessories; Lake Corpus Christi State Park 
            19    (20)MGM Glass Corporation; Glass display cabinet; 
                      Display wildlife & plants for visitors at
            20        Purtis Creek SP 
                  (21)Parks and Wildlife Foundation of Texas; CASH;
            21        Great Texas Birding Classic
                  (22)John G. & Marei Stella Kenedy Memorial Fund;
            22        CASH; Great Texas Birding Classic 
                  (23)Port Aransas COC; CASH; Great Texas Birding
            23        Classic
                  (24)McAllen COC; CASH; Great Texas Birding Classic 
            24    (25)The Dow Chemical Company; CASH; Great Texas
                      Birding Classic
            25    
                  
. 0009
             1    (26)Port Arthur CVB; CASH; Great Texas Birding 
                      Classic 
             2    (27)Brownsville CVB; CASH; Great Texas Birding
                      Classic  
             3    (28)Swarovski Optik; CASH; Great Texas Birding
                      Classic 
             4    (29)Eastman Chemical Company; CASH; Great Texas
                      Birding Classic
             5    (30)Tim & Gail Brodwell; Washer & Dryer; For 
                      Seminole Canyon State Park volunteers 
             6    (31)Eagle Optics; CASH; Great Texas Birding
                      Classic 
             7    (32)Reliant Energy; CASH; Great Texas Birding
                      Classic 
             8    (33)Victor Emanuel Nature Tours; CASH; Great Texas
                      Birding Classic
             9    (34)Branton Company; CASH; Great Texas Birding  
                      Classic 
            10    (35)National Audubon Society; CASH; Great Texas
                      Birding Classic
            11    (36)City of Texas City; CASH; Great Texas Birding
                      Classic
            12    (37)Aransas Pass COC; CASH; Great Texas Birding
                      Classic
            13    (38)Stringfellow Trust; 12.066 acres & John
                      McCrosky historic cabin; Land and Historic 
            14        Site Conservation 
                  (39)McGillivay and Leona Muse; 1972.5 acres of 
            15        land in Brown County; Land (Habitat) 
                      Conservation
            16    TOTAL:  $1,608,110.69
            17    
            18                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Sansom, would 
            19    you move forward to the next part.
            20                  MR. SANSOM:  Mr. Chairman, at this 
            21    point I would like to -- I have several 
            22    announcements and acknowledgments I would like to 
            23    make. 
            24                  First, I'd like to call your 
            25    attention to a unique exhibit that we have placed 
. 0010
             1    with Bob Cook's help in the corridors of the lobby 
             2    here.  From 1889 to 1905 a team of naturalists 
             3    that were at that time employed by the US 
             4    Biological Survey conducted an extensive series of 
             5    biological investigations in Texas which were 
             6    published in 1905 under the title Biological 
             7    Survey of Texas by Vernon Bailey. 
             8                  Thousands and thousands of pages of 
             9    field notes and reports and photographs were 
            10    archived in the national archives and the 
            11    Smithsonian.
            12                  Several years ago Doctor David 
            13    Schmidly, who is now the president of Texas Tech 
            14    University obtained copies of all of this material 
            15    and designed a project that basically has three 
            16    objectives: one, to reprint all of the original 
            17    biological survey of Texas work with annotations 
            18    and clarifications of scientific nomenclature; 
            19    two, to develop a CD ROM or a user friendly 
            20    computer database of the complete collection so 
            21    that it will be accessible to everyone; three, to 
            22    develop a museum exhibit which you will see in our 
            23    corridor today; and four, a book which will come 
            24    out later this year entitled Texas Natural 
            25    History, a Century of Change.
. 0011
             1                  A carefully selected segment of the 
             2    exhibit is now in display in the lobby back here 
             3    in the perpendicular corridor.  And it details the 
             4    objectives and the methods of the naturalists who 
             5    conducted the survey.  I think as you view it, it 
             6    will beg the question what Texas will look like a 
             7    century from now. 
             8                  It's astonishing to look back and 
             9    see what these guys found when they first came in.  
            10    Most interesting is that much of the landscape 
            11    today in Texas is better than it was in condition 
            12    than it was a hundred years ago.  So there's some 
            13    very interesting insights.  But I think you'll -- 
            14    each of us will ask the question what will our 
            15    great grandchildren think of what we did to 
            16    conserve these resources when they look at similar 
            17    exhibit in 2100.
            18                  This is the most satisfying portion 
            19    of our meetings for me.  And when we have the 
            20    opportunity to recognize those employees who have, 
            21    with not much pay and a lot of grief, served the 
            22    Texas people with such distinction here at Parks 
            23    and Wildlife.
            24                  Today we have the privilege of 
            25    recognizing Corette Richter, who is retiring with 
. 0012
             1    26 years of service to Parks and Wildlife.  
             2    Corette started on October 7 of 1974 as a clerk in 
             3    Boat Registration.  In 26 years she implemented 
             4    numerous legislative changes.  The boating 
             5    registration deal is always a topic in the 
             6    legislature.  She's trained numerous field staff.  
             7    She automated the boat registration system, which 
             8    is one of the most efficient in the country today.  
             9    And for the last eight years Corette has 
            10    supervised the Boat Information Section. 
            11                  She works with county tax assessors, 
            12    field offices, boat owners and dealers, and she's 
            13    given a wonderful 26 years to Texas Parks and 
            14    Wildlife.  Retiring today, Corette Richter, with 
            15    26 years of service. 
            16                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
            17                  MR. SANSOM:  For 35 years Lynn 
            18    Benefield from Coastal Fisheries has been 
            19    aggressively and in a very dedicated way helping 
            20    to protect the coastal resources of Texas.  He is 
            21    the regional director of Coastal Fisheries in 
            22    Seabrook, and he started in 1966 as a biologist.  
            23    And he began working on the mud shell dredging 
            24    projects in Galveston Bay. 
            25                  Over his tenure his leadership has 
. 0013
             1    been felt in marine construction, the oyster 
             2    reefs, artificial reef construction, tremendous 
             3    vegetation transplanting areas that are now taking 
             4    place from Sabine Lake to Corpus Christi Bay.  In 
             5    1985 he was promoted to regional director for the 
             6    upper coast.  And he is unfortunately about to 
             7    retire, although we are recognizing him today for 
             8    his service.
             9                  I actually felt like that -- one 
            10    thing that Lynn would never do would be to leave 
            11    until we had a new office in the Dickinson area 
            12    because the office that he has been working in is 
            13    regularly flooded for many years.  So I think he's 
            14    finally made sure that the people who will succeed 
            15    him will have a dry place to work.  So he's here 
            16    with us today with 35 years, Lynn Benefield.
            17                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
            18                  MR. SANSOM:  At one time, Public 
            19    Hunting in our Department, as amazing as it seems, 
            20    was basically a limited by-product of our 
            21    management and research.  It was not a major 
            22    thrust.  In 1966 Herb Kothmann came to work for 
            23    the Department as a wildlife biologist in the 
            24    Permian Basin regulatory district.  He worked in 
            25    Big Spring for 17 years and served for ten years 
. 0014
             1    as district leader in that area.  In 1983 he came 
             2    here to assume responsibility for the public 
             3    hunting program.  And during that 18 years, that 
             4    program has become a featured use of Department 
             5    lands, a core value for our Department. 
             6                  Herb has expanded and computerized 
             7    the public drawing to annually today offer more 
             8    than 6,000 opportunities for people to hunt in 
             9    Texas.  With 35 years of service to the wildlife 
            10    division, here with his wife, Donna, recognize 
            11    Herb Kothmann. 
            12                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
            13                  MR. SANSOM:  Boy, another face that 
            14    is known to everyone who is involved in coastal 
            15    conservation, marine fisheries, commercial fishing 
            16    industry, recreational fishing is Ed Hegen.  Ed 
            17    Hegen has worked for 30 years in Coastal 
            18    Fisheries.  Before he became a full-time employee 
            19    of Parks and Wildlife, he worked five times as a 
            20    seasonal technician until he could get on board.  
            21    He's been a technician.  He's been an area 
            22    biologist.  He's been a program leader, and now he 
            23    is a regional director. 
            24                  He is a man who was recognized in 
            25    1998 as the employee of the year for leadership.  
. 0015
             1    His responsibility today is for the entire lower 
             2    half of the Texas coast.  He's contributed 
             3    professional papers and to numerous publications.  
             4    And his work is known not only in Texas but 
             5    throughout the Unites States.  Ed Hegen from 
             6    Coastal Fisheries with 30 years of service.
             7                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
             8                  MR. SANSOM:  Another fisheries 
             9    biologist whose reputation extends well beyond the 
            10    boarders of Texas is Joe Kraai.  Joe Kraai 
            11    started -- Commissioner Henry, as a wildlife at 
            12    Sheldon when it was a wildlife management area and 
            13    hatchery.  He was promoted to a biologist in 1973, 
            14    and moved to canyon, which is where I first met 
            15    him.  He was the leader of the Inland Fisheries 
            16    District Management Team up there, and he lived in 
            17    Canyon for 24 years when he became the Regional 
            18    Director of Inland Fisheries in San Antonio. 
            19                  He is a respected manager in Texas 
            20    and throughout the country, and he's played a 
            21    major role in the Inland Fisheries Division as a 
            22    national leader in innovative and aggressive 
            23    fisheries management.  He is respected around the 
            24    state by every one of our employees as a great 
            25    mentor and trainer of other professionals.  He is 
. 0016
             1    a great friend of mine, and today we recognize Joe 
             2    Kraai for 30 years of service to the fresh water 
             3    anglers of Texas.
             4                  (Applause; photographs taken.)
             5                  MR. SANSOM:  As each of you know, I 
             6    sometimes make some really bad decisions.  But 
             7    every once in a while I make a good one.  And one 
             8    of the best I've ever made is in asking Bob Cook 
             9    to be my chief side kick here in the Chief 
            10    Operating Officer of the Department.  Bob Cook 
            11    came here in 1965 as a wildlife biologist in 
            12    Junction.  In '72 he became the area manager of 
            13    the Kerr Wildlife Management Area which is today 
            14    one of the most distinguished sites for the study 
            15    of upland ecology and white-tailed deer in the 
            16    Unites States. 
            17                  Bob initiated all of the 
            18    breakthrough nutrition and genetics research 
            19    studies on white-tail deer, as well as studies on 
            20    native and exotic big game animals.  He was 
            21    instrumental in acquiring the initial breeding 
            22    herd of deer at the site which has become so 
            23    famous and was responsible for construction of the 
            24    white-tailed deer research facility.  He became 
            25    program leader of the white-tailed deer program in 
. 0017
             1    1975. 
             2                  Unfortunately, for a number of years 
             3    Bob left the Department and worked in the private 
             4    sector for the Shelton ranches in Texas, Montana 
             5    and Florida as Vice-President of Ranch Operations.  
             6    In 1990 Bob Cook returned to Parks and Wildlife, 
             7    thankfully, and became Chief of the Wildlife 
             8    Division.  He was the Director of the Division in 
             9    1994 and served as the acting director of State 
            10    Parks for two years. 
            11                  Today, he is the Chief Deputy of 
            12    Parks and Wildlife and its Chief Operating Officer 
            13    and one of the finest professionals in 
            14    conservation anywhere in the Unites States.  Bob 
            15    Cook. 
            16                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
            17                  MR. SANSOM:  Laird Fowler, with 25 
            18    years.  Laird is an interesting guy and has made a 
            19    tremendous contribution to our Department.  He is 
            20    in the State Parks Division where he started in 
            21    1975 as an intern from A&M.  Laird initiated in 
            22    the Parks Division the first summer interpretive 
            23    programming that occurred on a daily basis.  He 
            24    created fishing tips for kids, aquatic seining, 
            25    astronomy, night prowls, nature crafts all at Lake 
. 0018
             1    Brownwood State Park.  He carried that 
             2    interpretive skill and dedication to Sea Rim where 
             3    he built interpretive exhibits.  He gave guided 
             4    canoe tips and helped with the public duck hunts.
             5                  During that time he also found time 
             6    to become the utility plant operator and was 
             7    certified to do so.  He was the Assistant 
             8    Superintendent at Palo Duro Canyon.  He's worked 
             9    at Fort Richardson, at Monahans Sandhills, and he 
            10    was the first manager at Brazos Bend which during 
            11    his tenure was named by the National Geographic as 
            12    one of the 10 best state parks in the United 
            13    States.
            14                  Today he works here in the Austin 
            15    headquarters and has been called on to do 
            16    everything from the Balcones Canyon Lands 
            17    Conservation Plan to the Infrastructure Task 
            18    Force.  Please recognize with 25 years of service, 
            19    Mr. Laird Fowler from State Parks.
            20                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
            21                  MR. SANSOM:  Johnnie B. Freeman 
            22    started work at Martin Dies in 1974 as a seasonal 
            23    employee.  She went full-time in '77, and she's 
            24    today the administrative officer and office 
            25    manager there with 25 years of service from 
. 0019
             1    Jasper, Texas, Johnnie B. Freeman.  And you look 
             2    terrific.
             3                  And she has her two beautiful 
             4    daughters with her today as well. 
             5                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
             6                  MR. SANSOM:  A jewel in our crown is 
             7    the Washington-on-the-Brazos State Historical 
             8    Park.  Tom Scaggs started as a lead interpretive 
             9    ranger at the park in the Anson Jones House in 
            10    1976.  He was made the manager in 1981 and is now 
            11    the complex manager.  And his responsibilities 
            12    include all of the Republic of Texas complex, 
            13    including the Barrington Living History Farm, 
            14    Fanthorp Inn State Historical Park and the 
            15    Washington-on-the-Brazos Park itself. 
            16                  For those of you who have not had 
            17    the opportunity to visit Washington-on-the-Brazos, 
            18    it is truly an example of what this Department can 
            19    do when it has the resources to truly preserve and 
            20    interpret the heritage of Texas.  And the leader 
            21    in that movement has been Tom Scaggs, its 
            22    superintendent, now being recognized for 25 years 
            23    with Parks and Wildlife, Tom Scaggs.
            24                   (Applause; photographs taken.).  
            25    Well, got caught in the traffic, Commissioner 
. 0020
             1    Ryan.  We'll see him when he gets here.
             2                  From Monahans.  Monahans is another 
             3    great place, made particularly so not only because 
             4    of its fabulous resources, but because it has 
             5    probably the strongest and one of the first 
             6    friends groups in our systems.  In fact, I believe 
             7    that the first State park endowment was created at 
             8    Monahans.
             9                  Glen Korth started to work at Lake 
            10    Somerville actually in 1981 as a seasonal worker.  
            11    When he finished his degree from Texas A&M, he 
            12    moved up from Ranger II to Assistant Manager there 
            13    at Somerville, the safety officer and the park 
            14    peace officer.  He became Park Manager in 1993, 
            15    and then in '97 he moved to Monahans Sandhills 
            16    where he is now the manager of the park and helps 
            17    work with one of the finest community partners 
            18    anywhere in our system. 
            19                  Please recognize, with 20 years of 
            20    service to State Parks, Glen Korth from Monahan 
            21    Sandhills.
            22                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
            23                  MR. SANSOM:  David Simmons began to 
            24    work in the headquarters motor pool in 1981.  He 
            25    really wanted to get out into the field, and so he 
. 0021
             1    struggled and finally got himself transferred to 
             2    Coastal Fisheries that year and served in the 
             3    Matagorda and San Antonio Bay Ecosystem Management 
             4    Teams, working on fisheries resource and harvest 
             5    monitoring programs.  He's a Fish and Wildlife 
             6    Technician III, and he's conducted fishery 
             7    sampling in the upper Laguna Madre and Corpus 
             8    Christi Bay and all the way down to the land cut. 
             9                  This program is part of the reason 
            10    why the Laguna Madre is the home of the State 
            11    record Spotted Sea Trout.  And David Simmons and 
            12    his colleagues have helped make that one of the 
            13    greatest fisheries in North America. 
            14                  Please recognize David Simmons from 
            15    Coastal Fisheries, a Fish and Wildlife Technician 
            16    with 20 years of service. 
            17                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
            18                  MR. SANSOM:  All right.  Finally, 
            19    members, Nancy Jane Ziegler from Coastal Fisheries 
            20    is currently the administrative technician for the 
            21    Lower Coast Rockport Regional Office.  She started 
            22    with the Department in 1981 and steadily advanced 
            23    up the career ladder during her tenure.  She 
            24    assists the regional director there with a diverse 
            25    range of administrative challenges ranging from 
. 0022
             1    monthly employee time sheets to purchasing 
             2    regulations and insurance issues.  She's 
             3    well-known throughout that part of the coast for 
             4    her friendliness, her positive attitude, and her 
             5    continuous helpfulness. 
             6                  Please recognize Nancy Jane Ziegler 
             7    from Coastal Fisheries at Rockport, with 20 years 
             8    of service. 
             9                   (Applause; photographs taken.)
            10                  MR. SANSOM:  Mr. Chairman and 
            11    members of the Commission, no corporate 
            12    partnership has meant as much to Texas Parks and 
            13    Wildlife over the years as that of the Dow 
            14    Chemical Company.  You could stay here all day and 
            15    talk about the many things that we have done with 
            16    this unique corporation, from the establishment of 
            17    Sea Center, Texas itself to the creation of the 
            18    Peach Point Wildlife Management area and many 
            19    more. 
            20                  And it gives me a great deal of 
            21    pleasure to introduce to you today Mr. Tommy  
            22    Block, who heads all of Dow's operations in Texas, 
            23    for a special presentation.  Tommy Block.
            24                  MR. BLOCK:  Mr. Chairman and 
            25    Commissioners and the audience behind me, it's an 
. 0023
             1    honor today to recognize a few folks from the 
             2    Texas Parks and Wildlife and the TNRCC. 
             3                  Before I get into that, I have long 
             4    accused Andy Sansom of having the best possible 
             5    job in the State of Texas.  And I now realize that 
             6    I have the second best job, and that is to head 
             7    Dallas, Texas operations which grew quite 
             8    substantially recently with the acquisition of the 
             9    Union Carbide sites in Sea Drift and Texas City.  
            10    So Andy, I have the second best job, and I'm 
            11    catching up to you.
            12                  As Andy mentioned, Dow has a long 
            13    history of collaborative efforts with the State of 
            14    Texas, with conservation associations and with 
            15    individuals who care a great deal about Texas and 
            16    the environment.  The Sea Center in Lake Jackson 
            17    is a prime example of that where we partnered with 
            18    Parks and Wildlife and the Coastal Conservation 
            19    Association and hundreds of volunteers.  And it's 
            20    a wonderful place.  I hope the audience behind me 
            21    gets a chance to visit if they haven't already. 
            22                  But we're here today to honor 
            23    certain individuals who helped us put together 
            24    what we've referred to as the Austin's Woods 
            25    Conservation Initiative which creatively and 
. 0024
             1    collaboratively help Dow solve some of its 
             2    wetlands mitigations issues, but also allowed Dow 
             3    to put aside 3,000 acres and some money to help 
             4    preserve it in the historically significant and -- 
             5    significant from a wildlife point of view Austin's 
             6    Woods area. 
             7                  And so it's with great pleasure that 
             8    Dow Chemical Company honored its own employees 
             9    last year with the prestigious Responsible Care 
            10    Award.  One of those award winners was Ron  
            11    Dipprey, who is here with me today.  And the Dow 
            12    Chemical Company insists on also honoring those 
            13    folks within the agencies in Texas who helped us a 
            14    great deal. 
            15                  And so will Jack Bauer and Bob Cook 
            16    and Andy Sansom and Jeff Saitas from the TNRCC 
            17    please come up and receive an award from the Dow 
            18    Chemical Company.
            19                  (Applause; photographs taken.)
            20                  MR. BLOCK:  Thank you. 
            21                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, Tommy, and 
            22    thanks for all that you have done.  I would also 
            23    call your attention that along with Mr. Saitas, 
            24    who is my colleague from the Texas Natural 
            25    Resource Conservation Commission is Commissioner 
. 0025
             1    Baker from that Commission.  He's here as well.  
             2    So welcome, Commissioner Baker.  And thank you-all 
             3    for being here.  Tommy Block is also a member of 
             4    the Parks and Wildlife Foundation of Texas Board, 
             5    along with Commissioner Idsal and Commissioner 
             6    Heath.  And we appreciate your service in that 
             7    regard as well.
             8                  At this time Mr. Chairman, don't you 
             9    go back and sit in that chair yet because this is 
            10    a time of this program which is a very -- yes, 
            11    sir, please, if you could rejoin me down at the 
            12    bottom. 
            13                  Thankfully, members and ladies and 
            14    gentlemen, Governor Perry has asked Mr. Bass to 
            15    remain the Chairman of our Commission through the 
            16    end of this legislative session.  And we are 
            17    blessed that he has agreed to do so.  However, 
            18    today we do have the sad task of saying good-bye 
            19    to two of the best Commissioners who have ever 
            20    served on this board, and that is Dick Heath and 
            21    Nolan Ryan. 
            22                  And so at this time I would like to 
            23    ask Lydia and her staff to present you with a 
            24    little story about two of the best friends we've 
            25    ever had.
. 0026
             1                      (WHEREUPON, a videotape was
             2                      presented in honor of
             3                      Commissioners Ryan and Heath,
             4                      after which time, the
             5                      proceedings continued as
             6                      follows:)
             7                  MR. SANSOM:  We have for each of you 
             8    a token of our appreciation, an acknowledgment of 
             9    your service here.
            10                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Thank you.
            11                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  Thank you. 
            12                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  And I guess I have 
            13    to say given the immense amount of accomplishments 
            14    of both of your lives, the incredible talent that 
            15    you've both represented and dedication, that 
            16    everyone in this Department feels like you've 
            17    showed them respect and friendship which we will 
            18    always remember.
            19                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:   Well, thank 
            20    you.
            21                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  Thank you.
            22                      (Applause.)
            23                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:   Andy, I'd just 
            24    like to say that I've certainly enjoyed my time 
            25    here.  I feel very blessed that I've had this 
. 0027
             1    honor.  And it's not too many people that get an 
             2    opportunity to be in the position that Dick and I 
             3    have.  And I know, speaking for myself, that I 
             4    truly did enjoy it.  And I truly did get -- enjoy 
             5    meeting all the employees here with the Department 
             6    and seeing their dedication, and I'll always 
             7    remember that.  Thank you. 
             8                  (Applause.)
             9                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  I'll try to 
            10    keep mine shorter than Nolan did.  But it's been 
            11    an extraordinary six years, an extraordinary 
            12    experience and opportunity.  And I've really 
            13    enjoyed certainly working with Nolan, all the 
            14    Commissioners, Chairman Bass and Andy and all of 
            15    you.  The dedication of this Department, and the 
            16    people who work here is absolutely unbelievable.  
            17    And it's truly been an honor to work with and get 
            18    to know each and every one of you.  And I thank 
            19    you very much. 
            20                      (Applause.)
            21                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  You have to be off 
            22    the Commission for five years before you can be in 
            23    the hall of fame.
            24                  All right.  Who wants to follow that 
            25    act, huh?  That was great, Lydia.  That was a 
. 0028
             1    great job. 
             2                  All right.  We need to move to 
             3    approval of the agenda for today.  And it is 
             4    before you.  Does anybody have any comment or a 
             5    motion? 
             6                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  I move approval 
             7    of the agenda.
             8                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second.
             9                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion and second.  
            10    All in favor?  Any opposed?  So we move our 
            11    agenda.
            12                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
            13                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  And we do not have a 
            14    consent agenda today, so Item 1 will not be heard. 
            15       AGENDA ITEM NO. 2:  ACTION - 2001-2001 
            16       STATEWIDE HUNTING AND FISHING PROCLAMATION.
            17                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Item 2, Statewide 
            18    Hunting and Fishing Proclamation. 
            19                  Mr. Hammerschmidt, if you will start 
            20    us off this morning.
            21                  MR. HAMMERSCHMIDT:  Good morning, 
            22    Mr. Chairman, Commissioners.  My name is Paul 
            23    Hammerschmidt, Program Director for the Coast 
            24    Fisheries Division.  I'm going to present to you 
            25    today results of the public comments on the 
. 0029
             1    regulations that we proposed.  There we go.  
             2    Regulations that we proposed. 
             3                  The first proposal was to increase 
             4    the daily bag of Spanish mackerel in state waters 
             5    from seven fish to 15 fish per person.  We 
             6    received zero comments in the 19 county public 
             7    hearings that we had.  And of the 39 e-mails that 
             8    were received on this proposal, 29 were in favor. 
             9                  The second proposal was to fix 
            10    language to require floats on crab traps used by 
            11    commercial finfish fisherman to be white instead 
            12    of yellow.  We also received zero comments from 
            13    the 19 county public hearings.  And from the 21 
            14    e-mails that were received on this, 16 were in 
            15    favor. 
            16                  In conclusion, we make no -- we 
            17    recommend that there be no amendments to these 
            18    proposals.  And I'd be happy to answer any 
            19    questions.
            20                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Questions?  Thank 
            21    you, Paul. 
            22                  MR. KURZAWSKI:  Good morning, 
            23    Commissioners.  My name is Ken Kurzawski.  I am in 
            24    the Fisheries Division.  And I'd like to review 
            25    our changes to the freshwater fishing regulations 
. 0030
             1    and give you our results of the public comment 
             2    from those public hearings that we held and also 
             3    from other methods. 
             4                  The first proposal we have is on 
             5    Lake Sweetwater.  We've proposed to change the 
             6    minimum length limit for the -- the lake limit for 
             7    large-mouthed bass from the current 14-inch 
             8    minimal length limit to a 14- to 18-inch slot.  
             9    Our goal there is to increase abundance of quality 
            10    size bass in this population.  Public comment from 
            11    the -- primarily through e-mail, we received 67 
            12    comments.  84 percent of them were in favor.  We 
            13    also did, prior to the proposal being made, we did 
            14    discuss this proposal with the bass fisherman in 
            15    the area, bass anglers and bass clubs.  And they 
            16    were also generally in favor of the proposal.
            17                  The next proposal is on the Pinkston 
            18    Reservoir.  We're proposing to change the 14- to 
            19    18-inch slot limit to a 14- to 21-inch slot with 
            20    restriction that only one of the fish harvested 
            21    could be over 21 inches.  Our goal there is to 
            22    increase the abundance of trophy size bass of this 
            23    population.  Public comment was generally in favor 
            24    of it.  Of the 61 comments received, 84 percent 
            25    were in favor.  And through a local survey we 
. 0031
             1    made, the proposal was also overwhelmingly 
             2    approved in favor.
             3                  OH Ivie Reservoir, we're proposing 
             4    to change the length limit for large-mouth bass 
             5    from the current 18-inch minimum to a no-minimum 
             6    length limit with restriction that the five fish 
             7    bag that only two can be less than 18 inches.  We 
             8    have an over abundance of 14- to 18-inch bass 
             9    there that are growing slowly.  And our goal there 
            10    is to remove some of those fish to maintain the 
            11    quality of this fishery.  Public comment, we 
            12    received 79 comments on this.  75 percent were in 
            13    favor of this change.
            14                  The next change is on seven 
            15    reservoirs.  These would be small-mouth bass 
            16    regulations.  The length limit, we currently have 
            17    an 18-inch limit.  We're proposing to change it to 
            18    14 inches and change the daily bag from three to 
            19    five.  And this would be going to the statewide 
            20    limits for the species.  We didn't see any gains 
            21    that we had hoped under the 18-inch minimum.  We 
            22    see a chance here to simplify the regulations and 
            23    still maintain the quality of these fisheries. 
            24                  Public comment, we did receive one 
            25    written comment, one verbal comment against us.  
. 0032
             1    And from other comments, 80 of them we received -- 
             2    71 percent were in favor of this change.
             3                  The final change is on two small 
             4    reservoirs, Lakes Coffee Mill and Davy Crockett in 
             5    the Caddo National Grassland, and we're proposing 
             6    to prohibit the use of trot lines, throw lines and 
             7    jug lines.  Our goals here are to improve the 
             8    quality of the catfish angling and to work with 
             9    the U.S. Forest Service who administers this area, 
            10    to standardize the regulations -- some of the 
            11    regulations that they have. 
            12                  Public comment, we received one 
            13    written comment against this, and from e-mails we 
            14    received 64 comments.  64 percent were in favor of 
            15    the change.  Based on these comments that we 
            16    received and our review of the comments, we 
            17    propose to you that -- to approve the changes that 
            18    we have proposed without any changes.  I'll take 
            19    any questions if you have any.
            20                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any questions of Ken 
            21    at this time?  Thank you very much.  Doctor Cooke, 
            22    please? 
            23                  DR. COOKE:  Mr. Chairman and 
            24    members, my name is Jerry Cooke, Game Branch Chief 
            25    of the Wildlife Division.  I'll be presenting to 
. 0033
             1    you the recommended changes for the statewide 
             2    hunting and fishing proclamation from our 
             3    division.  These were issues that were proposed to 
             4    you in the January meeting, and we feel that these 
             5    proposals relate to the chairman's charges for 
             6    maximizing hunting opportunity and landowner 
             7    flexibility while protecting the wildlife 
             8    resources for which we are all responsible.  I'll 
             9    summarize public comments for each proposal as I 
            10    present them to you. 
            11                  The first one was a petition for 
            12    rulemaking to open the quail season one week 
            13    earlier.  As I pointed out in January, we really 
            14    have no biological issues here.  It's not going to 
            15    affect the population one way or another.  But we 
            16    had other concerns about it. 
            17                  Commissioner Angelo asked us if 
            18    there was some way that we could word the opening 
            19    date to prohibit a conflict between the opening 
            20    day of hunting season for the white-tailed deer 
            21    season. 
            22                  The answer is, yes, do it one of two 
            23    ways.  One is instead of saying the Saturday 
            24    nearest November 1, we could say the Saturday 
            25    nearest October 28th, or we could simply say the 
. 0034
             1    last Saturday in October.  It would do the same 
             2    thing.  I think you have a handout showing that we 
             3    have three years of conflict in a row that recur 
             4    through time.  If you choose to change that 
             5    wording, then that would accommodate the concern.
             6                  On the proof of sex of a turkey, we 
             7    would propose to change it from the beard attached 
             8    to either one leg including the spur attached to 
             9    the bird or the patch of breast feathers with a 
            10    beard attached accompanying the bird.  And this is 
            11    primarily for the sanitation of the bird being 
            12    transported from the hunting area.  We had 201 
            13    comments in favor of this and seven in opposition.
            14                  Proposed to open a spring Easter 
            15    wild turkey season in Houston, Rusk, Smith, Upshur 
            16    and Wood counties, this would be the standard 
            17    county season as they have as elsewhere in Texas.  
            18    We had 184 comments in favor of and seven in 
            19    opposition to this proposal. 
            20                  The proposal to open a javelina 
            21    season in Archer County would be from October 1 
            22    through the last Sunday in February.  The bag 
            23    limit would be two javelina.  It's identical to 
            24    the adjacent counties' seasons.  We had 128 
            25    comments in favor of and four in opposition to 
. 0035
             1    that proposal.
             2                  Currently populations with the 
             3    greatest need for harvest of deer are provided 
             4    only the county's general season which is much 
             5    shorter than those provided for Level 2 or Level 3 
             6    MLD properties to accomplish a much more difficult 
             7    harvest goal in a time that would be less than 
             8    optimal for benefiting the habitat.  This proposal 
             9    would allow antlerless control deer permits to be 
            10    valid during a specific time period, which would 
            11    be Saturday nearest September 30th through the 
            12    last day of any open season on the property.  We 
            13    had 198 comments in favor and 56 in opposition to 
            14    that proposal.
            15                  We would propose to allow the use of 
            16    LAMPS permits in Fannin, Hunt and Rains County 
            17    with no other change to the season or bag limit.  
            18    We had 157 comments in favor of and 16 in 
            19    opposition to that proposal. 
            20                  In the 14 counties north of the 
            21    Edwards Plateau, we proposed to add an antlerless 
            22    deer to the bag limit, which would bring the bag 
            23    limit to five deer, no more than two bucks.  And 
            24    we would also have an additional 14-day antlerless 
            25    and spike only season provided after the general 
. 0036
             1    season.  We had 190 comments in favor of that and 
             2    29 in opposition. 
             3                  Two proposals for South Texas.  One 
             4    would be to add 12 counties to the five deer, no 
             5    more than three buck bag with the 14-day 
             6    antlerless and spike late season in the counties.    
             7    We had 174 in favor of that and 26 in opposition.  
             8    And also to open all of the South Texas counties a 
             9    week earlier, which would be the first Saturday in 
            10    November.  We had 199 comments in favor of that and 
            11    41 in opposition. 
            12                  The proposal that would have provided 
            13    a receipt log for MLD properties, we recommend that 
            14    that be withdrawn.  We have comments from the 
            15    Triple-T Task Force that discusses these issues, and 
            16    they are quite informed on them.  They recommend that 
            17    we amend the MLD program in two ways that we support. 
            18                  One is to allow a partial issuance 
            19    of permits on a Level 2 or Level 3 MLD property on 
            20    properties where the survey is conducted later 
            21    than the opening of the season.  In South Texas 
            22    there's lots of counties where they don't even 
            23    begin their deer survey until late October.  It 
            24    kind of makes it hard to get permits for the 
            25    opening of the October season otherwise.  The 
. 0037
             1    remainder of the permits then would be provided 
             2    when the survey was completed. 
             3                  The second is a tagging issue.  
             4    Currently a hunter has to have an MLD permit on 
             5    his person when he's hunting a deer, takes the 
             6    deer, has to tag it with his hunting license and 
             7    the MLD permit. 
             8                  This proposal would require that he 
             9    use the tag from his hunting license immediately, 
            10    take the animal immediately to a location on the 
            11    property where permits can be attached.  And this 
            12    would be easier for the landowner to keep track of 
            13    his permits and for the permits to not fall apart 
            14    in the pocket of the hunter before the deer is 
            15    even taken.  There was no public comment on this 
            16    since this was an amendment.
            17                  The proposal to split the current 
            18    one buck compartment in Texas, which is about half 
            19    of Texas, into two compartments, which would allow 
            20    a hunter in the counties that lie along I-35 and 
            21    east to take one deer in that area and then to 
            22    move west of that area, to take one deer.  
            23                  We had 188 comments in favor of this 
            24    and 47 in opposition.  If we adopt this proposal, 
            25    we would like to leave in place long enough for us 
. 0038
             1    to evaluate it to actually determine if it does 
             2    have an impact on hunting pressure in this very 
             3    heavily hunted portion of Texas.
             4                  When we originally adopted the bonus 
             5    tag for deer, we allowed it be used on special 
             6    permits and to be used on State Parks and Wildlife 
             7    Management Area hunts because that was the only 
             8    kind of public hunting we had at that time.  And 
             9    we have many other kinds of public hunting 
            10    opportunities, including on private land. 
            11                  And we would like to amend this 
            12    portion of the bonus tag to allow it to be used in 
            13    any deer hunt on our public hunting properties, 
            14    wherever they might be.
            15                  Also in the published proclamation, 
            16    we included a provision that would require hunters 
            17    to fill out the tag log on the back of the hunting 
            18    license, primarily because we thought we were 
            19    going to be able to implement that with a new 
            20    contract.  But complications have arisen that 
            21    we're not going to be able to implement at this 
            22    time.  And we need to withdraw that proposal for 
            23    consideration at this time.
            24                  One of the most commented on 
            25    proposals that I've seen, certainly as related to 
. 0039
             1    this youth-only season expansion provision, 
             2    yesterday I reported we had 636 in opposition and 
             3    121 -- there's considerably more arrived this 
             4    morning.  It's probably closer to a thousand in 
             5    opposition.  But this is primarily because of 
             6    misunderstanding of the proposal, to a large 
             7    extent, in that we can't publish options in the 
             8    Texas Register.  
             9                  And if you have -- if we're going to 
            10    identify all of the weekends in which you could 
            11    choose to expand into, we have to publish them 
            12    all.  That was never the intent that they all be 
            13    adopted. 
            14                  At any rate, most of those in 
            15    opposition were archers concerned about archery 
            16    hunting in October.  Our proposal would be amended 
            17    to you is this:  We maintain the youth-only 
            18    weekend that we currently have in place and 
            19    provide the third weekend in January on properties 
            20    that do not otherwise have an open season on them 
            21    as an expansion for that program. 
            22                  We also intend to work extensively 
            23    with the archers between now and the next cycle to 
            24    see if there are other ways that we might be able 
            25    to promote youth hunting in a mutual sort of way.
. 0040
             1                  The recommended motion for the Texas 
             2    Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts the 2001-2002 
             3    statewide hunting and fishing proclamation located 
             4    in Exhibit A, with changes to the proposal as 
             5    published in the February 23, 2001 issue of the 
             6    Texas Register.  If you have any questions about 
             7    the wildlife proposals, I'd be happy to entertain 
             8    them at this time. 
             9                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  
            10    Mr. Chairman, is -- may I say something, please. 
            11    (Inaudible).
            12                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Please -- fine. 
            13                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Mr. Cooke, one 
            14    of the two questions I have, one regards the quail 
            15    proposal.  Do you have any major problem with 
            16    going to the Saturday nearest October 28th and see 
            17    how it would work? 
            18                  DR. COOKE:  No.  As I said, we -- 
            19    there's no biological issue here.  You know, the 
            20    issue is that over the years virtually every 
            21    comment I've ever had was, A, the season opens too 
            22    early and it's too long.  And of course the 
            23    response is, you can stay home.
            24                  But at any rate, if the concern is 
            25    opening on the same day for white tail and quail, 
. 0041
             1    this is one way of repairing that if you choose to 
             2    do that.
             3                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  And there 
             4    seems to be some concern about it.  And to me it 
             5    seems like it might be a worthwhile experiment to 
             6    try it and see how it works. 
             7                  The second question I had with 
             8    respect to the youth only.  We had a -- we 
             9    received a letter from the Bow Hunters 
            10    Association, the president.  One of the 
            11    suggestions he made was that -- and I guess this 
            12    is something we couldn't do now because it wasn't 
            13    published.  But it was to consider a youth-only 
            14    bow hunting weekend.
            15                  DR. COOKE:  Absolutely.
            16                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  That sounds 
            17    like an excellent idea to me, but it's obviously 
            18    something we'd have to do later.
            19                  DR. COOKE:  He's here.  And I 
            20    believe he'll be commenting also for you.  But as 
            21    I said, that's one of the many things we can work 
            22    with them on between now and the next cycle.
            23                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Thank you.
            24                  DR. COOKE:  Thank you, sir. 
            25                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Jerry, I have a 
. 0042
             1    question on the quail.  What's the latest that 
             2    you've seen a fall hatch? 
             3                  DR. COOKE:  Well, what we talked 
             4    about yesterday was the research that we've done 
             5    in Texas to determine when an appropriate opening 
             6    date might be.  We've done it on the Matador area.  
             7    We've done it on the Chaparral.  I was involved in 
             8    the one on the Chaparral. 
             9                  The thing that we chose -- the 
            10    reason that we proposed the opening that we did 
            11    from the Chaparral study and also from the 
            12    Matador, is we just arbitrarily picked a time when 
            13    90 percent of the hunters were satisfied with 90 
            14    percent of their bag.  In other words, there are 
            15    still going to be some small birds in certain 
            16    years. 
            17                  I have seen, while I was in South 
            18    Texas, which was a long time ago -- I've seen 
            19    seasons where essentially no young birds appeared 
            20    until July.  It was an odd year.  But I've seen 
            21    that. 
            22                  I've also seen where we had a year 
            23    where we saw no more small birds after the middle 
            24    of July.  But in a typical year it's -- it begins 
            25    in May, kind of forms a normalized hump and pretty 
. 0043
             1    well is finished by the middle of August, pretty 
             2    much year in and year out.  And that's from 
             3    memory.  But I could get you the reports.
             4                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  What do you 
             5    consider the survivability of the real late 
             6    hatched quail? 
             7                  DR. COOKE:  Well, about the same for 
             8    any quail.  I mean, survivability of a quail is 
             9    very, very low in South Texas.
            10                  DR. COOKE:  The late ones don't have 
            11    a worse chance in --
            12                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  It's hard to 
            13    tell.  You never have a good enough sample size of 
            14    banded birds to be able to extend.  In fact, most 
            15    of the estimates that we did on the Chaparral was 
            16    dependent on the first two weekends of the hunt 
            17    because after that there's too many things 
            18    involved to complicate it with any good estimates.  
            19    And I've never done any telemetry work.  There may 
            20    be some, some, but I'm not familiar with it.
            21                  COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Have there been 
            22    any studies similar to the Chaparral?  And you 
            23    said the other one was Matagorda? 
            24                  DR. COOKE:  Matador.
            25                  COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Oh, Matador.  
. 0044
             1    Where is Matador?
             2                  DR. COOKE:  It's in Childress 
             3    County.  It's up in southern rolling plains, 
             4    panhandle.
             5                  COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  That answers my 
             6    question.  I wanted to know about the studies.  I 
             7    still am questioning about the late hatches, if 
             8    they occur, must occur at somewhat different 
             9    times, depending on what time -- or what part of 
            10    the state you're in, for temperature reasons and 
            11    rainfall and any number of things.
            12                  DR. COOKE:  One would think.  I've 
            13    only worked in South Texas.  I've never worked in 
            14    Matador.  But as I said, we can acquire those 
            15    studies.  We'll certainly cover all those issues 
            16    in the briefing at the next Commission meeting. 
            17                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Thank you. 
            18                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  The -- in looking at 
            19    the handout, the change to opening near the 
            20    Saturday nearest October 28th would move the 
            21    opening up one week in 12 out of the next 20 
            22    years. 
            23                  So that's -- if one wishes to pursue 
            24    a compromise position between the current status 
            25    in opening a week earlier, I guess this would be 
. 0045
             1    one way of doing it.  But it would affect the -- 
             2    you know, roughly half the time, so...
             3                  We do have some public comment on 
             4    this agenda item.  And if we're through discussing 
             5    this for the time being, we'll go ahead and -- 
             6    let's go ahead and do that.
             7                  David Bailey, if you'd come forward 
             8    to speak.  And I'd like Paul Hodges to be prepared 
             9    to speak second. 
            10                  MR. BAILEY:  Commissioners, my name 
            11    is David Bailey.  I'm president of theTraditional 
            12    Bowhunters of Texas.  I'm here to ask that the 
            13    proposed new proposal on the youth hunting with 
            14    rifles during the archery season not be approved.  
            15    We're not against youth hunters.  We're very much 
            16    in favor of youth hunting. 
            17                  We've given a weekend, the last 
            18    weekend of the special archery season for youth 
            19    hunting.  We would like to work -- and this is 
            20    what I'm asking you, is work with youth to develop 
            21    new hunters.  The kids that we have hunting today, 
            22    they're hunting today.  What we need is new 
            23    hunters, be it adults and youth, to replace the 
            24    ones that are moving on.  This program does 
            25    nothing for bringing in new hunters. 
. 0046
             1                  I ask that you give us time to work 
             2    with youth, work with Texas Parks and Wildlife in 
             3    developing new hunters, the whole hunting 
             4    community.  I ask -- this is what I ask.  Thank 
             5    you. 
             6                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Paul Hodges?  And if 
             7    Kevin -- I'm having trouble with -- Hilbig be 
             8    prepared to speak next, Lone Star Bow Hunters 
             9    Association.  Paul Hodges, please. 
            10                  MR. HODGES:  Yes.  I'm here also as 
            11    a member of the executive counsel of the Lone Star 
            12    Bow Hunters Association to speak to you today 
            13    about the proposed youth hunting season in 
            14    October. 
            15                  First I'd like to thank you all for 
            16    letting us speak about this.  One of the things 
            17    that I noticed was proposed is that the youth 
            18    hunting season be put into January, which I think 
            19    is a very good proposal.  The Bow Hunters 
            20    Association is definitely not anti-youth hunting.  
            21    We really want to improve youth hunting numbers. 
            22                  You know, y'all have probably seen 
            23    the last few years at the wildlife convention, the 
            24    youth bow hunting booth was one of the most 
            25    popular booths there.  And we continue to have 
. 0047
             1    that booth, and we will continue to do so. 
             2                  One of the problems that we see with 
             3    the proposal to have youth rifle hunts during bow 
             4    hunting season is with the -- with some of the 
             5    regulations dealing with having rifles in camp 
             6    while -- with bows, with the game wardens having 
             7    to -- they're already pretty much having to do 
             8    quite a bit and having to have a little bit 
             9    more -- having to do a little bit more of this 
            10    regulation is not a good thing.
            11                  Another thing that has been noticed, 
            12    especially on the youth hunts recently, is that 
            13    last year at Chaparral a hunter showed up with a 
            14    three-year-old in tow. 
            15                  And we're afraid that this type of 
            16    thing may continue if hunters are allowed to bring 
            17    their small children out into the field.  And the 
            18    last thing I'd like to say is, I have children. 
            19                  Next week I'm going to take my 
            20    13-year-old daughter turkey hunting.  And I'm 
            21    doing it not because there's a special season for 
            22    it.  I'm doing it because it's a privilege to me 
            23    to be able to take her hunting. 
            24                  And I think that's the way we should 
            25    start doing this, is we should start offering 
. 0048
             1    incentives to parents who take their kids hunting.  
             2    If kids don't have parents, we need to come up 
             3    with something that can help -- that can help us 
             4    get kids without parents out into the field, maybe 
             5    offering incentives to school children who do well 
             6    in school. 
             7                  The Lone Star Bow Hunters 
             8    Association is more than willing to work with the 
             9    Texas Parks and Wildlife to volunteer some of our 
            10    efforts to help with this. 
            11                  So I just wanted to thank y'all for 
            12    allowing us to be here to speak to y'all and also 
            13    wanted to thank y'all for your time in serving the 
            14    State of Texas.  Thank you. 
            15                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you, 
            16    Mr. Hodges.  Kevin Hilbig?  And Kelly Garmon, if 
            17    you'd be prepared to speak after Mr. Hilbig. 
            18                  MR. HILBIG:  Honorable 
            19    Commissioners, my name is Kevin Hilbig, 
            20    vice-president of the Lone Star Bow Hunters 
            21    Association.  I would like to thank each of you 
            22    for giving me this opportunity to express my 
            23    concerns.  I'm here to today to support the 
            24    2001-2002 hunting regulations as proposed by Texas 
            25    Parks and Wildlife staff.  I do share a concern 
. 0049
             1    about the thought of extending the youth hunting 
             2    season to include every weekend of the special 
             3    archery season. 
             4                  I personally support the idea of 
             5    providing more opportunities for youth to 
             6    participate in the sport of hunting.  I'm not 
             7    convinced that combining it with archery season is 
             8    the right to thing to do.  I've talked to numerous 
             9    bow hunters who share seasonal leases with rifle 
            10    hunters.  They take full advantage of the special 
            11    archery season when they're not competing with the 
            12    rifle hunters.  Their claim is once the general 
            13    season starts, deer sightings go down because of 
            14    the increased competition.  In situations like 
            15    this, landowners very seldom make rules on choice 
            16    of weapons so they must blend in together and make 
            17    their own rules. 
            18                  Bow hunters also hunt smaller land 
            19    tracts because they can do so safely.  Are we 
            20    setting ourselves up for possible conflict and by 
            21    increasing -- or increasing hunting accidents by 
            22    allowing rifles during the special archery season? 
            23                  I realize that without getting our 
            24    younger generation involved, the sport of hunting 
            25    will have a difficult time existing in the near 
. 0050
             1    future.  If we extend the youth hunting 
             2    opportunities into October, would we actually get 
             3    new hunters involved?  I would have to say no 
             4    because I believe that the decline of younger 
             5    hunters is associated with the cost of hunting. 
             6                  Average income families simply 
             7    cannot afford the cost of hunting lease and, 
             8    therefore, have given up the sport of hunting.  
             9    Ranchers who leased their property out for hunting 
            10    certainty have the right to get the return on 
            11    their investment.  They experience operating 
            12    expenses just like any other business.  Is 
            13    creating a youth hunting season during archery 
            14    season the right answer?  How can we increase the 
            15    number of youth to participate or acknowledge that 
            16    hunting is not a bad thing? 
            17                  Over the past five years, I have 
            18    participated along with the LSBA members to 
            19    provide youth archery event at the Texas Parks and 
            20    Wildlife Outdoor Expo.  This is a great event that 
            21    reaches out and gives opportunity of thousands of 
            22    kids who have never participated in shooting 
            23    sports.  The Expo is a fine example of all parties 
            24    working together for the best interest of outdoor 
            25    sports. 
. 0051
             1                  Can we as sportsmen come together 
             2    with ideas that can make a real impact in 
             3    recruiting new hunters?  Can we give that family 
             4    that wants to hunt but can't afford to the 
             5    opportunity to go field?  Last summer at the youth 
             6    hunt promotional gathering on Commissioner 
             7    Watson's ranch, a comment was made that summed it 
             8    up very well.  If we can provide the opportunity 
             9    for a kid to participate in the sport of hunting 
            10    just once and they have an enjoyable experience, 
            11    then just maybe we as hunters have a partner for 
            12    life. 
            13                  In closing I ask that the 
            14    Commissioners please approve the proposed hunting 
            15    regulations and give opposing groups time to 
            16    arrive at a solution that will allow us to 
            17    increase the number of youth involved in hunting 
            18    activities.  The LSBA is willing to do our part in 
            19    promoting youth opportunities.  Thank you very 
            20    much. 
            21                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you, 
            22    Mr. Hilbig.  Kelly Garmon?  And Danny Evans, if 
            23    you'd be prepared to speak after Mr. Garmon.
            24                  MR. GARMON:  Mr. Chairman, 
            25    Commissioners, thank you for your time.  My name 
. 0052
             1    is Kelly Garmon.  I'm here speaking for myself 
             2    basically.  My motivation for coming today to talk 
             3    to y'all are pretty much selfish.  I'll admit that 
             4    right up front. 
             5                  I have a six-year-old daughter.  She 
             6    will be six next month, and she has hunted the 
             7    last two years with myself and her mother.  And 
             8    during that time, my fondest memories of the hunt 
             9    weren't of the first deer I killed with a bow or 
            10    any animal in particular.  More so, that Katie 
            11    went out with me in the dark in the woods and 
            12    watched the woods wake up and the wildlife come 
            13    out, the sounds, the peace and serenity of seeing 
            14    the world away from the hustle and bustle of 
            15    everyday life.  And I'd like to see that preserved 
            16    in October for her and hopefully her children. 
            17                  When the guns go off in the pasture 
            18    next to you, that serenity is gone.  That's pretty 
            19    much all I have to say.  Thank you for your time. 
            20                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you, 
            21    Mr. Garmon.  Danny Evans?  And Tommy Actkinson, if 
            22    you'd be prepared just to come up after Mr. Evans.
            23                  MR. EVANS:  Good morning, 
            24    Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, Commissioner Heath 
            25    and Commissioner Ryan.  I want to thank you, too.  
. 0053
             1    I appreciate what all you guys do for the State of 
             2    Texas.  I'm 36 years old.  I've been hunting and 
             3    fishing in the State of Texas since I was two or 
             4    three years old.  I have an 11-year-old son.  He's 
             5    coming up the same way in my shoes.  Loves to fish 
             6    and is just now getting into the age that he's 
             7    able to I guess adequately handle a firearm in a 
             8    manner that I see that he's efficient enough to 
             9    kill with. 
            10                  He also is an archer.  He started 
            11    picking up archery about two years ago, and this 
            12    year I started taking him with me on 3D 
            13    tournaments.  He's placed first.  He's placed 
            14    second, and he's placed third.  And he's proud of 
            15    that.  He wanted me to say to you guys this 
            16    morning that he wants to have the opportunity to 
            17    be able to bow hunt in October.  He has plenty of 
            18    opportunity.  He's spoken to bow hunt in November 
            19    and December like we did last year.  I gave up 
            20    three weekends in November to take my son hunting 
            21    last year, rifle hunting.  He killed his first 
            22    deer last year in the third weekend.  He's also 
            23    been archery hunting with me.  He is -- at 35 
            24    pounds he can't make the 40-pound minimum because 
            25    he's 11 years old, but he tries. 
. 0054
             1                  Every two or three weeks he's on a 
             2    bow scale, Dad, is it 40 pounds?  Is it 40 pounds?  
             3    And I have to tell him, no, it's not 40 pounds, 
             4    son.  He'll be ready next October.  And I'm as 
             5    avid as everybody else is about youth hunting.  I 
             6    want the youth to come up.  I want the youth to 
             7    hunt.  I ask the kids in our neighborhood, come on 
             8    over and, you know, watch us shoot. 
             9                  My son has one little boy down the 
            10    street that comes over and the kid is begging his 
            11    parents to get him a bow so he can come over and 
            12    shoot with us.  We're trying to promote youth.  
            13    I'm trying to promote youth.  I'm an individual.  
            14    I'm not part of the LSBA.  I'm not part in of any 
            15    organization.  I'm just a father that I grew up in 
            16    the hunting.  My son is growing up in the hunting 
            17    situation.  And he wants to have the opportunity 
            18    to come into bow season.  People are bringing up 
            19    items to you of safety. 
            20                  I archery hunt in November as well 
            21    as I do in November -- I'm sorry, October.  And 
            22    the gun issue in November, the gun issue in 
            23    December would affect me the same way that it does 
            24    in October.  The reason that I find October is a 
            25    special time is it is the serenity time that I can 
. 0055
             1    bow hunt without the influence of having the rifle 
             2    hunters.  I believe it was the last gentleman that 
             3    just spoke or the gentleman before that that just 
             4    spoke, he mentioned the abuse that's going to be 
             5    happening with the fathers during archery season.  
             6    I personally, on our place in Lampasas, on our 
             7    little 50-acre place, seen a man driving down the 
             8    road last October of -- the last weekend of 
             9    October last year on the youth rifle season, and 
            10    he had a three-year-old little boy in the truck. 
            11                  When I opened the gate up for him to 
            12    drive through, I asked him what he was doing.  And 
            13    he said that he was out rifle hunting with his 
            14    son.  That's just one of the abuses that we're 
            15    going to sustain if we put rifle season in 
            16    October. 
            17                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, sir.
            18                  MR. EVANS:  Thank you.
            19                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Evans.  
            20    Mr. Actkinson.  And Joseph Simone should be 
            21    prepared to speak after Mr. Actkinson.
            22                  MR. ACTKINSON:  Thank you.  My name 
            23    is Tomme Actkinson.  I'm the president of the Lone 
            24    Star Bow Hunters Association.  LSBA supports the 
            25    amended proposal of the proposed regulations.  The 
. 0056
             1    current proposals are in the best interest of the 
             2    Texas hunting community.  LSBA is pro youth.  We 
             3    would gladly support a youth bow hunt weekend. 
             4                  Several years ago when youth rifle 
             5    hunts were proposed for the final weekend of the 
             6    archery season, LSBA did not propose.  The 
             7    proposal this year for rifle hunts on every 
             8    weekend in October is the reason why Parks and 
             9    Wildlife has now received over 1,000 
            10    communications in opposition.  Bow hunters are not 
            11    the only ones in opposition.  Many rifle hunters 
            12    feel it is a bad idea as well.  Why? 
            13                  First, it does not address the real 
            14    problem.  There are already ten to 13 weekends 
            15    available as well as the Thanksgiving and 
            16    Christmas holidays.  Additional hunt weekends may 
            17    be a good idea.  But only when they do not 
            18    interfere with existing seasons.  Rifle hunts in 
            19    October interfere with the archery only season.  
            20    The youth hunt the last weekend in October does 
            21    this also, but most bow hunters accept this.  
            22    Every weekend is another matter. 
            23                  I have heard some claim that a 
            24    shared season is proposed, not one in which there 
            25    is interference.  On large, high-fenced ranches, 
. 0057
             1    perhaps.  But many leases are 500 acres or less.  
             2    Archery hunting on this size ranch would be 
             3    greatly affected by rifle hunts on that land or 
             4    the land next door. 
             5                  Every weekend rifle hunts would be 
             6    an interference with, not a sharing of the archery 
             7    only season.  The real problem is not time but 
             8    affordable places to hunt.  As president of LSBA, 
             9    I want to see the number of young hunters 
            10    increase.  And I issue a challenge to Parks and 
            11    Wildlife and other organizations such as TWA.  
            12    Let's work together to get more youth into hunting 
            13    by finding ways to make more affordable hunting 
            14    lands available. 
            15                  One way this could be done would be 
            16    to provide more bow hunts on public lands.  You 
            17    can hunt far more bow hunters on a given piece of 
            18    land than you can with a rifle.  138 hunts were 
            19    proposed at state parks this year. 
            20                  Only 11 youth hunts were offered, 
            21    and none of these were archery.  I realize that 
            22    parks are multi-use facilities and that rifles are 
            23    the preferred mode.  But getting more youth into 
            24    hunting is important, too.  My dream would be ten 
            25    or more youth bow hunts per year on public lands 
. 0058
             1    with 100 to 200 kids taking part in each.  That 
             2    could really make a difference.
             3                  I believe that bow hunters in the 
             4    archery only season are due some respect.  Bow 
             5    hunters proposed the first archery stamp in order 
             6    to support Parks and Wildlife.  I have personally 
             7    bought that stamp since 1976.  I believe ours was 
             8    the first revenue stamp.  I know for sure that we 
             9    predate the turkey, white wing, saltwater and 
            10    muzzle loader stamps.  I feel that we are worthy 
            11    of support.  Please respect the integrity of the 
            12    archery only season.  Thank you for your 
            13    consideration.  We support the hunting regulations 
            14    as proposed.
            15                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you, 
            16    Mr. Actkinson.  Joseph Simone?  Actually, I have a 
            17    Joseph Simone the III and the IV.  Which are you?  
            18    I assume you're the fourth. 
            19                  MR. SIMONE:  Hello.
            20                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  If your father would 
            21    be prepared to speak after you, please.
            22                  MR. SIMONE:  Hello, my name is Joey 
            23    Simone, IV.  I am ten years old.  I have been 
            24    blessed to be born in the State of Texas, have the 
            25    opportunity to hunt and fish all year long.  By 
. 0059
             1    choice I am a bow hunter.  I have been shooting a 
             2    bow since I was three years old, competing in 
             3    tournaments for -- competing in hunting for the 
             4    last three years.  This year I've harvested an 
             5    eight point buck, an eight point whited-tailed 
             6    buck and a silver medal Hawaiian ram with my bow. 
             7                  Both of these animals were taken in 
             8    October before the gunshots got the animals 
             9    scared.  I live in the Houston area and have to 
            10    travel four hours to hunt.  My dad asks me if I 
            11    want to hunt every time he goes.  Being a hunter 
            12    in Texas, I can hunt with a bow or a gun every day 
            13    of the year.  Is it not true that hogs, javelina, 
            14    exotic animals and varmints can be hunted any 
            15    time? 
            16                  So my question is, why does the 
            17    State of Texas need a season during October for 
            18    youth only?  If it is to give the youth the chance 
            19    to kill a deer, then what I have been taught about 
            20    hunting must not be true.  Hunting is not only 
            21    about killing an animal.  It is about being 
            22    outdoors and learning about the wildlife, reading 
            23    animal tracks and learning the animals' habits, 
            24    watching animals play together and having fun with 
            25    your friends is what I think hunting is all about.  
. 0060
             1    Harvesting an animal is only a bonus to the 
             2    learning experience. 
             3                  I believe that every youth should 
             4    have an opportunity to hunt -- go hunting.  But if 
             5    their fathers cannot find the time to take them 
             6    all year long, they can find the time -- they 
             7    can't find the time to take them hunting in the 
             8    proposed October season.  Letting youth hunters in 
             9    the field during special archery season, you are 
            10    taking away myself and many other archers and 
            11    (inaudible) of the time that we pay for to hunt 
            12    deer. 
            13                  I am proof that you are never too 
            14    young to bow hunt and challenge you to try to get 
            15    more youths into archery; therefore, they can hunt 
            16    in October.  Thank you for your time.
            17                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you, Joseph.  
            18    And dad is going to try to follow that act, huh? 
            19                  MR. SIMONE:  I don't know if I can.
            20                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Gilleland, will 
            21    you be prepared to speak after Mr. Simone, please. 
            22                  MR. SIMONE:  Thank you, 
            23    Commissioners.  He wanted to come up and speak.  
            24    We came in from Houston this morning.  He's a bow 
            25    hunter from this big.  I mean, he's been going out 
. 0061
             1    with me for many years.  The things that he said 
             2    to me, we put on a piece of paper that he thought 
             3    was right. 
             4                  My questions to y'all are also the 
             5    same situation, where we have many exotics and hog 
             6    hunters.  Why does it have to be only a deer youth 
             7    only weekend?  Why can't we propose other animals 
             8    and other game for our youth only weekend?  That 
             9    way we can get youth in the field.  I know many 
            10    ranchers would love to have hogs taken off.  We 
            11    have a ranch in South Texas that we bring bow 
            12    hunts only.  I let kids hunt free.  I am noticing 
            13    more and more father-son hunts that bring your son 
            14    in for free. 
            15                  There's a lot of ways that can be 
            16    put together that we can allow youths to hunt.  
            17    Dove hunting, that's where I started out was dove 
            18    hunting, bird hunting.  I'm sure that everybody 
            19    here that hunts didn't have to have a father have 
            20    a special weekend to go because we didn't have 
            21    those weekends earlier.  We went when the season 
            22    started.  Heck, once we got going, we were on our 
            23    own.  I'm glad we changed it to -- the proposal 
            24    that has been changed not to take away the whole 
            25    October.  And if y'all can see fit to allow that, 
. 0062
             1    that would be to my -- to everybody's best 
             2    interest.  Thank you. 
             3                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  
             4    Mr. Gilleland?  And John Oneken, if you'd be 
             5    prepared to speak next. 
             6                  MR. GILLELAND:  My name is Ellis 
             7    Gilleland.  I'm speaking for Texas Animals, which 
             8    is an animal rights organization on the Internet.  
             9    I want to -- I've given you a handout which is 
            10    from the Texas Register publication of the State 
            11    land proclamation and the statewide proclamation 
            12    and the state park proclamation.  I've given it to 
            13    you for comparison so you can see on one piece of 
            14    paper that under the State park public land 
            15    proclamation, you're making an age limit of eight 
            16    years, eight year old for the youth hunt.  That's 
            17    the minimum age, eight years old. 
            18                  Now, on this hunt, the statewide, 
            19    there is no minimum.  It's 16 and below.  Flip 
            20    over the page, you can see 16 and below.  Also, 
            21    I've marked in yellow you can see there's no 
            22    change from what it was before.  It's always been 
            23    youth hunt, 16 and below.  And I'd like to give 
            24    you some comments that are in the Dallas Morning 
            25    News relative to the age of youth hunts that's 
. 0063
             1    written by Sasser and is published in the Dallas 
             2    Morning News for the 1st of February.  And I agree 
             3    with him wholeheartedly when he says that it's a 
             4    subterfuge.  The hunters -- the fathers are taking 
             5    advantage of the situation and just using the 
             6    children's name to kill more deer.  And he says -- 
             7    and I agree him wholeheartedly -- he's talking 
             8    about these hunts. 
             9                  He says the youngest applicant drawn 
            10    was two years old and he may have thrown a tantrum 
            11    had he not been drawn.  He says here, "But the dad 
            12    is the real hunter."  I'm sure you-all have read 
            13    this.  I'm just reading excerpts from it. 
            14                  And then Ray says, "The real tragedy 
            15    is" -- and I'm quoting -- "The real tragedy is 
            16    that parents would use their children to 
            17    circumvent game laws are teaching their kids to be 
            18    dishonest."  And then he says, "While the State 
            19    hopes to tighten the screws on deer hunters in 
            20    diapers" -- literally, a two year old is still in 
            21    diapers and was authorized to hunt deer under your 
            22    rules.  "They are proposing expansion of youth 
            23    hunting."  And then Ray says, if unscrupulous -- 
            24    quote, "If unscrupulous adults are using their 
            25    children to gain access to WMA hunts, aren't the 
. 0064
             1    same people taking advantage of the youth hunting 
             2    season?  Sure they are."  Unquote. 
             3                  So what I'm telling you is is that 
             4    you're contributing to the fraud of allowing 
             5    adults to use their children.  If a man has ten 
             6    children, if he has a baby one day old -- if you 
             7    read your own outdoor rules, if he has a baby one 
             8    day old --
             9                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, 
            10    Mr. Gilliland. 
            11                  MR. GILLELAND:  -- that one-day-old 
            12    baby can have a deer.  There is no age limit by 
            13    your rule.  A hunting license --
            14                  MR. SANSOM:  Mr. Gilleland, your 
            15    time is up.
            16                  MR. GILLELAND:  -- is required by 
            17    any person regardless of age.  Thank you.
            18                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  John Oneken?  And 
            19    Walt Glasscock, if you'd be prepared to speak 
            20    next.
            21                  MR. ONEKEN:  Thank you.  My name is 
            22    John Oneken.  My family has been here in Texas 
            23    since about 1850.  We own -- currently we own -- 
            24    we're down to about 500 acres now.  And all that 
            25    property remains that we have is in Colorado 
. 0065
             1    County.  I've been pretty fortunate in that I have 
             2    been able to hunt all over Texas, South Texas, 
             3    West Texas, North Texas, Central Texas.  I've been 
             4    on some pretty nice places that I've really been 
             5    impressed with. 
             6                  The last few years I've really 
             7    gotten more interested, I guess I'm getting a 
             8    little old, I don't know, more interested in 
             9    focusing a little more on the property that we own 
            10    and hunting on that property or trying to do 
            11    something to enhance the hunting ability on that 
            12    property.  One of the problems that we run into 
            13    that I think is a significant cause is properties 
            14    around us being broken up.  And we have a lot, lot 
            15    more hunters now out there on small tracts of 
            16    land. 
            17                  They may not hunt a lot of days, but 
            18    where we are, it's a one-buck county area.  And 
            19    you put 100 out there,  and he goes out and hunts, 
            20    and he's allowed one buck, well, the only buck he 
            21    might see out there might be a spike.  It might be 
            22    a pork horn, and he's probably going to shoot it.  
            23    And if he thinks about, well, I am going to wait 
            24    and let it be a six year old or eight year old, 
            25    and he says, well, my neighbor is going to shoot 
. 0066
             1    it so I better shoot it. 
             2                  So one of the things I saw, I got a 
             3    copy from one of our colleagues.  I've been to 
             4    school at Texas A & M.  It's a booklet they just 
             5    put out this last fall called Fragmented Lands put 
             6    out by the Wildlife and Fishery Service out there 
             7    in conjunction with the real estate commission.  
             8    But the discussions in there focus around land 
             9    being broken down smaller and smaller. 
            10                  And according to this report study 
            11    they've done, about 60 percent of land being sold 
            12    nowadays is being sold for recreational purposes.  
            13    And that recreational purpose is defined as 
            14    fishing, hunting, horseback riding or 
            15    approximately 40 percent for investment and 
            16    agriculture for the remainder of the sales. 
            17                  So the biggest problem I see that we 
            18    face out there right now is the decline of deer 
            19    population.  Now, this is just in certain areas, 
            20    not necessarily statewide.  And I think we need 
            21    some kind of help to do something to improve the 
            22    situation we're faced with where our deer 
            23    population is declining there. 
            24                  For the last two years on our 
            25    property there, we have three different types of 
. 0067
             1    land right now.  One is at a co-op, one is 
             2    low-fence property, and we have another tract of 
             3    land that we went and high fenced. 
             4                  On the co-op property, it's great.  
             5    The problem we run into there is, we're on the 
             6    fringe of the co-op, and the neighbors around us 
             7    that aren't in the co-op tend to shoot everything 
             8    that crosses the fence with a horn.  And so that 
             9    hurts us there.  On the low fence property in 
            10    another area not in the co-op, the last two years 
            11    during deer season I did not even see a deer with 
            12    a horn. 
            13                  Anyway, I thank you for your time 
            14    and hope you consider that in many future 
            15    proposals. 
            16                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  
            17    Mr. Glasscock.  And David Langford, if you'd be 
            18    prepared to speak last. 
            19                  MR. GLASSCOCK:  Thank you, 
            20    Commissioners and each of you for giving us this 
            21    opportunity.  And we thank you for your hard work.  
            22    Some of you received this yesterday, and we would 
            23    appreciate your consideration.  I'm Walt Glasscock 
            24    with the Texas Sportsmen's Association.  And our 
            25    concerns as Mr. Oneken has indicated his concerns 
. 0068
             1    are, deer population depletion.  We have problems, 
             2    as you know, with automobiles, coyotes, fire ants 
             3    and increasing numbers of small parcels of land 
             4    fragmentation. 
             5                  We personally as an organization 
             6    have spent thousands of dollars on coyote 
             7    harvesting, trying to improve the habitat in that 
             8    fashion.  We've purchased two mechanical deer for 
             9    local game wardens to help in deterring road 
            10    hunting by poachers.
            11                  For ten years we have approached 
            12    Texas Parks and Wildlife with a desire for some 
            13    regulations that would help remedy the problem of 
            14    depleted deer numbers.  We have had several 
            15    promises only to have been disappointed and 
            16    disillusioned in the past.  Our plea to you would 
            17    be to consider earnestly a three-year experiment, 
            18    at least three years with four or five contiguous 
            19    counties: Austin County, Colorado County, Fayette 
            20    County, Lavaca County, and possibly Washington 
            21    County. 
            22                  These are the areas we've been 
            23    surveying, the areas where our headquarters is 
            24    located, and most of our membership there, though, 
            25    we have members statewide and some out of state.
. 0069
             1                  We would like to see buck deer not 
             2    be killed unless they have at least four points on 
             3    one antlered side, meaning that if a hunter sees a 
             4    buck with four points on one side and he goes up 
             5    to it and he only has two or three on the other 
             6    side, he's not penalized.  He saw four points.  It 
             7    would also give opportunity for the hunter to 
             8    spend a little more time determining whether that 
             9    deer is legal or not, which could be a real safety 
            10    factor.
            11                  Also, we would recommend that 
            12    hunting co-ops of a thousand acres be considered 
            13    exempt from these regulations because we think 
            14    they're going about what they're doing in the best 
            15    possible fashion.  But with the fragmentation, 
            16    people going out -- and we have an area of 700 and 
            17    some odd acres, we figured out there's an about 
            18    100 for every 20 acres, on that particular.  
            19    There's eight parcels together.  And that creates 
            20    a real problem.  And what Mr. Oneken says is the 
            21    experience of a number of people that I've visited 
            22    with over the last two years hunted for two years 
            23    in our area and not seen a single buck of any 
            24    size.  People, we must have some help.  Would you 
            25    consider this?  Thank you for that. 
. 0070
             1                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  
             2    Mr. Langford, please? 
             3                  MR. LANGFORD:  Good morning, 
             4    Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission.  I'm 
             5    David Langford representing Texas Wildlife 
             6    Association.  I'd like to say how much I 
             7    appreciate working with Commissioner Ryan and 
             8    Commissioner Heath for the last six years.  It 
             9    seems like only yesterday.  It doesn't seem like 
            10    six years.  And I hope that our input has helped 
            11    you in your service here and that my ramblings 
            12    have helped also.  And I'm going to ramble a 
            13    little bit more today so you've only got one more 
            14    time to listen be to that. 
            15                  We'd like to support staff 
            16    recommendations.  I do have some thoughts about 
            17    the youth hunting weekend.  While we would like to 
            18    have seen more available weekends in October, we 
            19    completely understand the bow hunters' position 
            20    and the confusion that may have been with the way 
            21    the -- they appeared in the Texas Register.  We 
            22    commit that we will continue to work with the 
            23    Department and with our brothers and sisters in 
            24    the bow hunting community on programs to encourage 
            25    youth hunting. 
. 0071
             1                  With that in mind, I'd like to go on 
             2    record with one statement.  We've got to stop 
             3    talking about me.  We've got to stop talking about 
             4    I.  Everybody comes up here to this microphone 
             5    today, and they talk about me and my piece and 
             6    what I want to do.  We've got to stop focusing on 
             7    me and I and being selfish.  All of us have got to 
             8    stop focusing on ourselves, and we must focus on 
             9    the future of hunting. 
            10                  And with that in mind, that's what 
            11    we all need to work towards, and I think we could 
            12    come up with these solutions.  I'd like to -- that 
            13    ends my comments about the issue.  But one comment 
            14    or a couple of comments was mentioned about the 
            15    cost of hunting.  And y'all know that's a hot 
            16    button with me.  Hunting is not expensive.  Trophy 
            17    hunting is expensive.  If you offer a landowner 
            18    the amount of money that a family of four would 
            19    spend on a first line movie to come to the ranch 
            20    for the weekend and bow hunt for rabbits, that 
            21    landowner would fall over in a dead faint. 
            22                  Let's keep in mind a lot of the 
            23    other good comments that have been made here, 
            24    about varmints and feral hogs and all of the other 
            25    opportunities that there are for enjoying the 
. 0072
             1    outdoors while you're on a family experience which 
             2    may or may not include hunting and stop focusing 
             3    on the Boone and Crockett score of white-tailed 
             4    deer as the measure of the value of an outdoor 
             5    experience.  And I thank you very much. 
             6                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Langford, that 
             7    concludes the public comment.  Doctor Cooke, do 
             8    you have any response to any of the comments 
             9    before Commission discussion?  It seems to me 
            10    there are a couple of issues that we need to 
            11    discuss or I'd like Commission sentiment on. 
            12                  First, let's perhaps talk about the 
            13    quail opening date.  Doctor Cook, would you 
            14    refresh my memory of what the public comment was 
            15    on that proposal as published? 
            16                  DR. COOKE:  Public comment on the 
            17    proposal as it was published was 158 in favor, 88 
            18    in opposition.  And I'm --
            19                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  And as published, it 
            20    was published to open one week earlier.
            21                  DR. COOKE:  One week earlier.
            22                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Every year.
            23                  DR. COOKE:  Every year.
            24                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  And in response to 
            25    Commissioner Angelo's inquiry as of yesterday, you 
. 0073
             1    have a handout which would give us an alternative 
             2    of opening it the Saturday nearest October 28th, 
             3    which would open it one week earlier, roughly half 
             4    the time, and avoid any conflicts with the current 
             5    opening of deer season.  So the Chair would 
             6    entertain commission comment of what direction we 
             7    might like to go on this portion of the 
             8    proclamation.
             9                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Do you want to 
            10    try a motion on that portion of the --
            11                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  I'd just kind of 
            12    like to get some sentiment of what might -- it 
            13    could be the form of a motion or just discussion, 
            14    either one. 
            15                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:   I'll go ahead 
            16    and move, then, that this be a part of the overall 
            17    motion, in other words, an amendment, I guess 
            18    you'd call it, to remain a motion, and that would 
            19    be the quail season opening on the Saturday 
            20    nearest October 28th.
            21                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  Second.
            22                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion and a second.  
            23    Any further discussion?  All in favor?  Any 
            24    opposed? 
            25                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
. 0074
             1       "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts 
             2       the 2001-2002 Statewide Hunting and Fishing 
             3       Proclamation (located at Exhibit A), with 
             4       changes to the proposal as published in the 
             5       February 23, 2001, issue of the Texas
             6       Register (25 TexReg 1664)."
             7                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  So we shall add that 
             8    as an amendment to the proposed motion.  The 
             9    second issue that seems to be -- needs to be 
            10    addressed, I think, is the issue of the youth 
            11    proposal, the youth hunting dates.  Doctor Cooke, 
            12    to review again, the current proposal as 
            13    published, since we're not able to publish 
            14    options, as published would expand the youth 
            15    hunting weekends to include what dates? 
            16                  DR. COOKE:  All of the weekends in 
            17    October.
            18                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Which would be an 
            19    additional three? 
            20                  DR. COOKE:  Three.  And three 
            21    weekends in January. 
            22                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  For a total of six? 
            23                  DR. COOKE:  A total of six. 
            24                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  What we heard today 
            25    seemed to be comments concerned with the October 
. 0075
             1    dates.  In the comment that we've received prior 
             2    to today's meeting, to what degree did we receive 
             3    any comments of the January dates?
             4                  DR. COOKE:  The only thing that I 
             5    could give you right off the cuff is that of those 
             6    who were opposed, there was a substantial 
             7    fraction -- and I don't recall what that fraction 
             8    was, but it was like 20 percent of the comments, 
             9    perhaps -- said that if we were restricting the 
            10    expansion to the January weekends or any of the 
            11    January weekends, that they would be in support; 
            12    that they were clearly identifying their 
            13    opposition to the October weekends, although the 
            14    gist of the other comments were more or less the 
            15    same. 
            16                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  And just for review 
            17    again, the comments we received prior to today 
            18    were what in terms of --
            19                  DR. COOKE:  636 in opposition, 121 
            20    in favor.
            21                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Okay.  And --
            22                  DR. COOKE:  That's not including 
            23    several petitions that were brought in today.
            24                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  That were received 
            25    today, all of which were against? 
. 0076
             1                  DR. COOKE:  In opposition to it as 
             2    published.
             3                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  So it might be 
             4    helpful for us, in terms of discussing this, to 
             5    kind of break it in terms of the January proposal 
             6    and the October proposal.  Because it seems to me 
             7    that the January proposal has a different public 
             8    sentiment than the October proposal.  And the -- 
             9    from the comments we've received and heard, I 
            10    think that the October portion of it does raise 
            11    what seem to be some legitimate issues worthy of 
            12    discussion.  So the Chair would entertain comments 
            13    or discussion on this from the Commission. 
            14                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  What I'd like 
            15    to understand is, we're increasing the number of 
            16    youth hunts.  Correct? 
            17                  DR. COOKE:  The proposal would not 
            18    change the current weekend as it's provided.  It 
            19    wouldn't change that at all.  But it would provide 
            20    weekends that could be also identified in addition 
            21    to the current weekends.
            22                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  And they are in 
            23    October?
            24                  DR. COOKE:  The remainder of October 
            25    or the month of January.
. 0077
             1                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Three in October, 
             2    three in January.
             3                  DR. COOKE:  As it was published.
             4                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  As published. 
             5                  COMMISSIONER WATSON:  Well, I 
             6    personally believe that we ought to do everything 
             7    we can to increase the opportunity for youth to 
             8    hunt.  And, you know, I understand the emotional 
             9    issue of the bow hunters that they have with this 
            10    special time of the year for them.  But I think 
            11    that we're a big enough State, and I think there's 
            12    room for everybody.  And I think that anything we 
            13    can do to provide an opportunity for children to 
            14    get out and hunt -- because, you know, we're in 
            15    great competition with many, many activities in 
            16    their lives during the fall months.  And I think 
            17    all the opportunity we can give youth to hunt, I 
            18    think the better our future is going to be.  And I 
            19    would -- personally I would totally support the 
            20    addition of the dates that you've proposed.
            21                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  And the 
            22    opposition is predominantly coming from the bow 
            23    hunting community, is that --
            24                  DR. COOKE:  Primarily.  Again, I 
            25    didn't -- we didn't break the comments down in 
. 0078
             1    that kind of a detail.  It was a big stack of 
             2    them.  We were trying to count them. 
             3                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  It wasn't 
             4    Florida? 
             5                  DR. COOKE:  Right. 
             6                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:   Mr. Chairman, 
             7    I, too, wholeheartedly support the concept of 
             8    encouraging youth hunting as much as possible.  I 
             9    have certainly listened carefully to the positions 
            10    put forward by the bow hunters and would like to 
            11    assure them, as well as our colleagues, that the 
            12    concerns are being heard.  I think we probably 
            13    will get an increasing number of bow hunters from 
            14    urban areas, where YMCAs, I'm told, and scouting 
            15    groups, particularly in those areas, are doing 
            16    quite a bit and encouraging the use of the bows in 
            17    parks and areas where they can do so, where many 
            18    don't have the opportunity to fire rifles and all.  
            19    So I'm confident that this activity is going to 
            20    increase in the future, particularly among young 
            21    people. 
            22                  So to the extent that we can 
            23    accommodate both entities, I think it's certainly 
            24    wise for us to attempt to do so.  And I'm 
            25    particularly grateful for the young man from the 
. 0079
             1    Houston area who came and spoke before us this 
             2    morning. 
             3                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Nolan? 
             4                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:   I was 
             5    wondering, Jerry, on the issue of the abuse of the 
             6    age situation, do you have any feel for that? 
             7                  DR. COOKE:  I don't.  We could 
             8    talk -- you know, Herb has discussed it about 
             9    public hunting.  That's why we more or less 
            10    addressed that issue with the age limit.  The 
            11    public hunting proclamation, which you'll hear 
            12    later.  And I don't know anything about what law 
            13    enforcement may have experienced, and I don't know 
            14    if they have experienced anything.  David might 
            15    have a feel for that. 
            16                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:   On our public 
            17    hunts, do we have an age restriction on our public 
            18    hunts? 
            19                  DR. COOKE:  One is being proposed 
            20    now.  One is being proposed currently.  We have 
            21    not had one before.
            22                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:   Did we ask for 
            23    the ages of the children on those applications? 
            24                  DR. COOKE:  I believe date of birth 
            25    on the application.  Age is on the applications, 
. 0080
             1    yes.
             2                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:   Okay. 
             3                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  As I recall from the 
             4    comments in the committee hearing yesterday -- and 
             5    Herb, correct me if I'm wrong.  But as Doctor 
             6    Cooke said, we'll hear the proposal subsequent on 
             7    the agenda.  But the proposal in front of us is to 
             8    put a minimum age of eight years old, which would 
             9    eliminate roughly 100 applicants from the youth, 
            10    the 17 and under pool, which was about 10 percent 
            11    or some such number.
            12                  MR. KOTHMAN:  It would be less than 
            13    5 percent of the youth under 17 that applied last 
            14    year.
            15                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  5 percent are 
            16    younger than eight, which the proposal would make 
            17    ineligible in subsequent years.
            18                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  But it would be 
            19    around 100? 
            20                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Around 100.  And the 
            21    youngest person drawn was two? 
            22                  MR. KOTHMAN:  The youngest one that 
            23    applied was two, the youngest one was three.  And 
            24    the 5 percent was 198 that would be impacted.
            25                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  It was 198 impacted.  
. 0081
             1    So anyway, that's a diversion that in reference to 
             2    comments. 
             3                  DR. COOKE:  I asked Herb, just for 
             4    clarification, we're only talking about the 
             5    drawing hunts.
             6                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Right, only drawn 
             7    hunts.
             8                  DR. COOKE:  Quail hunts, dove hunts,  
             9    fishing opportunities on management areas of state 
            10    parks would not be affected by that proposed 
            11    change.
            12                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Excuse me.  
            13    Would you restate that?
            14                  DR. COOKE:  In other words, what he 
            15    was discussing about the public hunting 
            16    restriction, age eight and above is only for 
            17    drawing hunts.  It wouldn't affect any quail 
            18    hunts, any dove hunts, any fishing opportunities 
            19    or any other form of recreation on a wildlife 
            20    management or State park.  Only the drawn deer 
            21    hunts.
            22                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  But it would 
            23    affect all youth hunts, right? 
            24                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  That had a drawing.
            25                  DR. COOKE:  Drawn hunts.
. 0082
             1                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  That had a 
             2    drawing.  But qualifying for these youth weekends.
             3                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  No, no, no.  Only on 
             4    public hunting.  It's actually part of a different 
             5    proclamation.
             6                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  But we are going 
             7    to address that, too? 
             8                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  We are going to 
             9    address that later on the agenda today.
            10                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:   While we're 
            11    talking about age limits, what position would a 
            12    law enforcement officer take if confronted with 
            13    the situation the gentleman mentioned with a three 
            14    year old being put off as a youth hunter? 
            15                  DR. COOKE:  I don't know.  I don't 
            16    know, and nobody wants to walk up. 
            17                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:   Has that 
            18    situation been confronted in the field?  It's 
            19    bound to have been, I think.
            20                  DR. COOKE:  When I was area manager 
            21    at the Black Gap, it occurred once. 
            22                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:   He wants to 
            23    speak. 
            24                  DR. COOKE:  As I said, it happened 
            25    once when I was at Black Gap.
. 0083
             1                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  So you think 
             2    it's a pretty frequent abuse?
             3                  DR. COOKE:  Black Gap is not on the 
             4    way to any place, sir.  We had a pretty special 
             5    group of people that came out there.
             6                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  I really would 
             7    like -- is there anyone that would like to respond 
             8    to that? 
             9                  MR. LAWRENCE:  Mr. Chairman, 
            10    Commissioners, my name is Roy Lawrence.  I'm 
            11    Director of Field Operations.  Mr. Angelo, could 
            12    you restate your question? 
            13                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Well, the 
            14    gentleman mentioned an adult with a three year old 
            15    who professed to be taking the three year old on 
            16    the youth only weekend hunting experience.  Would 
            17    that -- how would you deal with that?
            18                  MR. LAWRENCE:  We encourage youth 
            19    hunts.  And I would encourage a three year old to 
            20    hunt just like this young man was hunting here.  
            21    We don't have a problem with that.
            22                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  So you think a 
            23    three year old could actually handle a gun?
            24                  MR. LAWRENCE:  I think they could, 
            25    with the father being present or the mother.
. 0084
             1                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Other comments or 
             2    questions on this topic? 
             3                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Mr. Chairman, 
             4    with respect to the youth only hunts during the 
             5    October, I -- I've been impressed by the concerns 
             6    of the bow hunters and also by their willingness 
             7    to try to work with us to try to find other means 
             8    of encouraging youth to hunt.  So I would 
             9    personally be in favor of adding only the weekend 
            10    in January that Mr. Cooke has proposed.
            11                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Yes, sir. 
            12                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Lee, could I ask 
            13    you, to get an understanding of the bow hunters' 
            14    position and where they are on the bow hunting 
            15    stamp and the regional stamp, how that originated 
            16    so I'll have a better understanding of that? 
            17                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Could you give us a 
            18    little history of the stamp and how it originated, 
            19    et cetera? 
            20                  DR. COOKE:  Basically -- and I'm 
            21    sorry, I'm going to have to talk off the top of my 
            22    head as far as dates are concerned.  There was a 
            23    statutory archery only season in Texas for many, 
            24    many years, many years.  And it was designated in 
            25    law as beginning October 1 through the end of 
. 0085
             1    October.  And this was part of the general law.  
             2    So it not only affected regulatory counties but 
             3    nonregulatory counties at all -- at that time. 
             4                  Basically when the archery stamp 
             5    came about, it was either exactly with or 
             6    immediately following the loss of the statutory 
             7    season, which only affected general.  Because we 
             8    had rules in place for an archery season in 
             9    regulatory counties.  Basically what the archers 
            10    did was tax themselves.  And, you know, we've 
            11    talked about user pay.  LSBA was primarily the 
            12    group, to my understanding of the history of it, 
            13    that sponsored the bill to the legislature and 
            14    says, if you will provide us an archery only 
            15    season, we will pay for that privilege and help 
            16    defray the cost of any administration of that 
            17    season.  That's the history of it. 
            18                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  So basically, 
            19    we're giving them the opportunity to expand their 
            20    hunting opportunity they were paying in -- with a 
            21    stamp? 
            22                  DR. COOKE:  Correct. 
            23                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  And so to hunt 
            24    those additional early weekends, they have to have 
            25    that stamp.
. 0086
             1                  DR. COOKE:  Correct.
             2                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  But during the 
             3    regular hunting season, they don't have to have a 
             4    stamp? 
             5                  DR. COOKE:  If an archer is only 
             6    hunting during the general season, they only have 
             7    to have the licenses that every other general 
             8    hunter has.  No stamp is required to hunt with a 
             9    bow and arrow during the general season.
            10                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Okay.  Now, 
            11    basically what we're talking about doing, except 
            12    it's a weekend only, is giving the youth the same 
            13    opportunity that the bow hunters have?  The bow 
            14    hunters -- explain this to me -- isn't a weekend 
            15    only? 
            16                  DR. COOKE:  Correct. 
            17                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  So they actually 
            18    get how many extra days?
            19                  DR. COOKE:  The month of October.
            20                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  The whole month 
            21    of October.
            22                  DR. COOKE:  Basically.
            23                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  So we're talking 
            24    about with the youth, three additional weekends in 
            25    October and three additional weekends in January? 
. 0087
             1                  DR. COOKE:  In January.  And the 
             2    proposal is written such that an archer would not 
             3    be prohibited from hunting on those weekends.  In 
             4    other words, this would only relate to youth 
             5    hunting with a gun.
             6                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  That's the key, 
             7    is the firearm.
             8                  The stamp is still in effect for the 
             9    month of October for bow hunters? 
            10                  DR. COOKE:  Correct.  In fact, we 
            11    had to create special provisions in the MLD 
            12    program to ensure that the stamp is preserved.
            13                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Well, I'm in 
            14    favor with what Commissioner Angelo said as well.  
            15    I think we all want to see an increase in youth 
            16    hunting.  But I think, you know, we've done the 
            17    measure with the archers for the month of October.  
            18    They're paying for that -- you know, that 
            19    increased opportunity, and they certainly are 
            20    passionate about it.  And I've been impressed by 
            21    that, too.
            22                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  You know, the 
            23    significant part from the bow hunter's standpoint, 
            24    I believe, is that if people are hunting with 
            25    rifles four weekends out of October, it's not that 
. 0088
             1    they are competing with them only on the weekends.  
             2    It's the fact that it disturbs the wildlife 
             3    population extensively throughout the whole month 
             4    in October on the properties where the rifle 
             5    hunting takes place.  So it's not just interfering 
             6    with their weekends.
             7                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Or adjacent to it if 
             8    it's small.
             9                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:   Right.  
            10    Especially on a small place.
            11                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Is there an age 
            12    limit on the youth for archery? 
            13                  DR. COOKE:  No.  But there's a pound 
            14    restriction on the bow draw.
            15                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Right.  I know 
            16    that.
            17                  DR. COOKE:  So it becomes an 
            18    indirect.
            19                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  Mr. Chairman, 
            20    just as a general comment on what seems not to be 
            21    a really clear-cut issue, my thinking here is that 
            22    a year ago --trying to look at all our 
            23    constituents, a year ago, the archers -- we 
            24    encumbered a week of theirs, if I understand 
            25    correctly, with rifle as well. 
. 0089
             1                  Certainly everybody here is very 
             2    interested in youth hunting.  And I don't -- in my 
             3    mind, just of logic, I can't, Jerry, get a 
             4    definitive direction one way or the other.  I 
             5    can't -- I haven't heard much talk about January.  
             6    The concern of the archers seems to be October.  
             7    And Ernie, if I understand correctly what you're 
             8    saying, you would lean or be in favor of leave 
             9    October for the archers as it is.  And where would 
            10    you be on January? 
            11                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:   January, an 
            12    extra weekend for the youth only in January would 
            13    be fine, as proposed. 
            14                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  There are three -- 
            15    the proposal includes three January weekends --
            16                  DR. COOKE:  The published proposal 
            17    included three.
            18                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  The published 
            19    proposal in those parts of the state where it 
            20    would otherwise be closed.
            21                  DR. COOKE:  That's correct, as it 
            22    was.  As we recommended, we recommended it at one, 
            23    the third.
            24                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:   Why did you 
            25    reduce it to one?  I guess I didn't ask that 
. 0090
             1    earlier.
             2                  DR. COOKE:  Well, the main is when 
             3    we looked at license sales, you see the peak, the 
             4    blip that appeared when the youth weekend was 
             5    provided.  And there was a corresponding impact on 
             6    harvest.  You can see that also.  We have no 
             7    experience with the January situation.  We've have 
             8    no experience with the change in population 
             9    behavior, say, as it related to hunting.  To 
            10    provide a weekend to evaluate it and see if it has 
            11    an impact certainly is worthwhile.  Whether or not 
            12    the experiment needs three weekends to be 
            13    determined is another matter entirely.
            14                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  I think one 
            15    weekend would be the desirable way to go.
            16                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Doctor Cooke, for 
            17    clarification, as published it was additional 
            18    three and three, and as proposed it is? 
            19                  DR. COOKE:  The third weekend in 
            20    January on properties that does not otherwise have 
            21    an open season, which would be the MLD properties.
            22                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  And as proposed in 
            23    October? 
            24                  DR. COOKE:  We did not propose that 
            25    as changed.
. 0091
             1                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  No change.  Okay.  
             2    So we published three and three, and what you're 
             3    coming here today as staff proposing is simply the 
             4    addition of one --
             5                  DR. COOKE:  One weekend in January.
             6                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  I just 
             7    wanted to be sure to clarify that for everybody.
             8                  DR. COOKE:  I'm sorry if I confused 
             9    you.
            10                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  So actually what 
            11    Commissioner Angelo is saying that you're in favor 
            12    of it as proposed rather than as published.
            13                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  You-all are 
            14    proposing one weekend in January, period?  That's 
            15    what we're going to vote on?  That's your 
            16    proposal?  That's staff's proposal? 
            17                  DR. COOKE:  Correct. 
            18                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  There's -- I'm not 
            19    sure I have a sense of consensus on the 
            20    Commission.  I'd entertain a further comment or a 
            21    motion. 
            22                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Well, it sounds 
            23    like we are supporting what staff is recommending.  
            24    Right? 
            25                  DR. COOKE:  I hope so.  I'm just 
. 0092
             1    standing here, sir.  No point. 
             2                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Which is no 
             3    youth hunting in October? 
             4                  DR. COOKE:  No.  To change the one 
             5    that is there but not to add one in October.
             6                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Mr. Chairman, 
             7    I would make the motion that as part of this 
             8    overall recommendation from the staff, that the 
             9    Commission approve the staff's recommendation with 
            10    respect to youth only, which is to leave the 
            11    present situation in October as it is and to add 
            12    the one weekend in January as described by 
            13    Mr. Cooke. 
            14                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  I'll second it.
            15                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  A motion and a 
            16    second.  Any further discussion?  All in favor?  
            17    Any opposed?  None appearing none opposed. 
            18                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
            19                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  So we have an 
            20    approved motion to accept staff's proposal on 
            21    youth only seasons.
            22                  DR. COOKE:  And the changing wording 
            23    of the quail.
            24                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  As an amendment.  
            25    The changing of the quail.  Are there any other 
. 0093
             1    issues on the overall proposal that we care to 
             2    discuss or -- I'll take a motion to approve the 
             3    whole darned thing.
             4                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Before we do 
             5    that, I'd like to ask Mr. Cooke to comment on the 
             6    question about the antler point requirement in the 
             7    proposal that's been -- I know that's not -- 
             8    that's not before us now, but just to comment on 
             9    that for something for the future. 
            10                  DR. COOKE:  We have -- we've worked 
            11    with Texas Sportsman's Association many times over 
            12    the years and have helped them work through 
            13    various proposals through the years.  And we have 
            14    done -- we did a fairly extensive analysis of what 
            15    the impact would have been on a season had certain 
            16    antler characteristics not been legal.  In other 
            17    words, you can never predict what's going to 
            18    happen, but you can say of those that were taken 
            19    in a previous season, this many would not have 
            20    been affected. 
            21                  And it's going to be very difficult 
            22    for me to bring that off the top of my head 
            23    because at the time we were looking at making 
            24    legal spike bucks, which actually is a smaller 
            25    percentage of the middle-age class in that area. 
. 0094
             1                  And it was like eight above, nine 
             2    above and ten above.  They had variable impacts, 
             3    depending on what your goal was.  If your goal was 
             4    to protect middle classes, that's a way to do 
             5    that.  Because of the configuration and the status 
             6    of the population in that general area, eight and 
             7    above protected fewer age classes than, say, nine 
             8    above did or ten above.  But it did say -- it did 
             9    protect animals in the middle age classes to a 
            10    certain extent.  I'd be happy, very happy to 
            11    some -- you know, to provide you the analysis that 
            12    we had before.  But I didn't bring it with me.  
            13    I'm sorry.
            14                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  I'm sure 
            15    you're still working with them to try to solve 
            16    whatever problems you may think exist.
            17                  DR. COOKE:  Absolutely prepared to 
            18    work with them as we have in the past.  We've had 
            19    proposals in the past, and they just never were 
            20    adopted, basically.
            21                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Mr. Chairman, 
            22    I'd move approval of the recommendation of the 
            23    proposal from the staff regarding the statewide 
            24    hunting and fishing proclamation with the 
            25    amendments as made.
. 0095
             1                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  Second.
             2                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  The motion is 
             3    seconded.  Any further discussion?  All in favor?  
             4    Any opposed?  Motion carries.  Thank you very 
             5    much.
             6                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
             7                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Mr. Chairman, 
             8    I'd like to make one comment before we move on.  I 
             9    think the concerns in these counties that were 
            10    brought up about the proposal of four points on 
            11    one side, I think there's a lot of people in the 
            12    Department that realize that we have a real 
            13    potential problem here in the future with the 
            14    fragmentation of properties in these areas.  And I 
            15    think we're going to see that even more so 
            16    statewide as our population grows. 
            17                  And I think from the Department's 
            18    standpoint, I think this is something that we 
            19    probably need to start addressing, trying to 
            20    figure out what we're going to do about this.  
            21    Because it's going to become a real issue.  And I 
            22    think every year that we go, it becomes more and 
            23    more of an issue.  And we're going to have to 
            24    address this at some point in time.  And I think 
            25    from our standpoint that we probably need to put a 
. 0096
             1    task force or something together to start thinking 
             2    about proposals and how we're going to handle this 
             3    at some point in time when it finally comes to the 
             4    point that it has to be addressed.  Thank you. 
             5                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  That's a good point.  
             6    At this point I'd like to go out of order and take 
             7    Agenda Item 11, local park funding.
             8       AGENDA ITEM NO. 11:  ACTION - LOCAL PARK 
             9       FUNDING.
            10                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Representative  
            11    Hinojosa from the Edinburg area is in the 
            12    audience.  And the Chair would like to recognize 
            13    him.  We appreciate you coming out this morning to 
            14    be with us and having patience to bear with us.  
            15    You've probably learned more about bow hunting in 
            16    October than you ever thought you would, but -- 
            17    but we can sign you up right outside.  But I don't 
            18    think you'll qualify for the youth season. 
            19                  REPRESENTATIVE HINOJOSA:  No.  I 
            20    don't think so, either. 
            21                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  We appreciate you 
            22    coming out and being with us this morning and your 
            23    interest in what we're doing with the folks in 
            24    Edinburg.
            25                   MR. HOGSETT:  Mr. Chairman, members 
. 0097
             1    of the Commission, I'm Tim Hogsett, Director of 
             2    the Recreation Grants Program in the State Parks 
             3    Division.  Item Number 11 is the proposal for 
             4    funding of the Edinburg World Birding Center 
             5    satellite site.  As you're aware, Rider 18 of the 
             6    Parks and Wildlife Appropriations Act for 
             7    2000-2001 requires the Department to support in 
             8    the amount of $500,000 each two satellite World 
             9    Birding Center sites. 
            10                  The City of Edinburg was one of the 
            11    selected sites, as was the City of Harlingen.  The 
            12    City of Edinburg has submitted an application for 
            13    $500,000 in matching funds, and they propose to 
            14    use that to develop an approximately 7,000 square 
            15    foot interpretive building facility for 
            16    interpretation of birding activities.
            17                  And our staff recommendation is that 
            18    funding for the development of the Edinburg World 
            19    Birding Center satellite facility in the amount of 
            20    $500,000 is approved from the Texas Recreation and 
            21    Parks account.  I'd be glad to answer any 
            22    questions you might have. 
            23                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  There's no public 
            24    comment on this item this morning.  Any questions 
            25    of Mr. Hogsett?  The Chair would entertain a 
. 0098
             1    motion.
             2                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  I'd make a 
             3    motion that the Commission agree to the 
             4    recommendation as stated by Mr. Hogsett.
             5                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second.
             6                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  All in favor?  Any 
             7    opposed?  Motion carries.  Thank you.  
             8    Congratulations to the folks in Edinburg.
             9                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
            10       "Funding for the development of the Edinburg 
            11       World Birding Center satellite facility in the 
            12       amount of $500,000 is approved from the Texas 
            13       Recreation and Parks Account."
            14                  MR. SANSOM:  Mr. Chairman, I would 
            15    like to also comment that the mayor of Edinburg is 
            16    here, along with Representative Hinojosa and to 
            17    say that throughout the effort to establish the 
            18    World Birding Center in the lower Rio Grande 
            19    Valley, Representative Hinojosa, as I'm sure the 
            20    senior member of the Valley Delegation has been a 
            21    force for leadership and tremendous support for 
            22    Parks and Wildlife.  And I appreciate his support 
            23    in the legislature and him being here today. 
            24                  I think they would -- these guys 
            25    would like to have a photograph with the check if 
. 0099
             1    you'd be willing to come down, just to make sure.
             2                  (Photographs taken.)
             3                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Yes, sir.  
             4    Mr. McCarty, please continue on Item 3. 
             5       AGENDA ITEM NO. 3: ACTION - LEGISLATIVE RULE 
             6       REVIEW.
             7                  MR. McCARTY:  Madam Chairman, 
             8    Commissioners, my name is Gene McCarty.  I am 
             9    Chief of Staff of the Texas Parks and Wildlife.  
            10    I'm here today to present to you the next phase of 
            11    our legislative rules review.  As you're aware
            12    the House Bill 1 of the 75th Legislature directed 
            13    State agencies to review all regulations and 
            14    readopt, amend or repeal each rule.  And this must 
            15    take place at least once every four years. 
            16                  Through this process we've reviewed 
            17    nine of the ten chapters of Texas Parks and 
            18    Wildlife.  We have one remaining after today.  In 
            19    this last process, we published a notice of intent 
            20    to review Chapter 57, Fisheries and Chapter 65, 
            21    Wildlife in the February 23rd, 2001 issue of the 
            22    Texas Register.  These two particular chapters are 
            23    reviewed quite often, and there is -- there's not 
            24    any recommendations for significant change except 
            25    in Chapter 65, which you've already taken action 
. 0100
             1    on. 
             2                  Chapter 57, as you will see here, 
             3    has a number of sub chapters that are familiar to 
             4    you, such as harmful and potentially harmful 
             5    exotic fish and shell fish, mussels and clams, 
             6    commercially protected finfish in scientific 
             7    areas.  And there is no recommendation for 
             8    change -- for any changes in this chapter.  We've 
             9    received no comments on this chapter review up to 
            10    this point. 
            11                  Chapter 65, which is the wildlife 
            12    chapter, contains the statewide hunting and 
            13    fishing proclamation which you just took action on 
            14    the proposed changes and a number of other areas 
            15    that you see quite often.  And we've received no 
            16    comment on these -- this rule review and are 
            17    proposing no changes other than the ones that you 
            18    just took action on. 
            19                  With that, the staff recommends that 
            20    the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopt with 
            21    changes to the proposed text as published in the 
            22    February 23, 2001 issue of the Texas Register the 
            23    contents of 31 Texas Administrative Code, Chapter 
            24    57, Fisheries, and Chapter 65, Wildlife.  And I'll 
            25    entertain any questions. 
. 0101
             1                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  There's no public 
             2    comment on this.  Are there any questions or a 
             3    motion? 
             4                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  I move 
             5    approval.
             6                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second.
             7                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion is seconded.  
             8    All in favor?  Any opposed?  Thank you very much, 
             9    Mr. McCarty. 
            10                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
            11       "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission 
            12       adopts, with changes to the proposed text as 
            13       published in the February 23, 2001, issue of 
            14       the Texas (26 TexReg 1757), the readoption of 
            15       the contents of 31 TAC Chapter 57 (Fisheries) 
            16       and Chapter 65 (Wildlife)."
            17       AGENDA ITEM NO. 4: ACTION - PETITION FOR 
            18       RULEMAKING.
            19                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Jerry Cooke, 
            20    petition for rulemaking, please. 
            21                  DR. COOKE:  My name is Jerry Cooke, 
            22    Game Branch Chief for the Wildlife Division.  And 
            23    I wanted to discuss with you or continue the 
            24    discussion that we began yesterday concerning the 
            25    petition for rulemaking.  
. 0102
             1                  Mr. Louie Adams petitioned the 
             2    Department to allow archers during the general 
             3    season to use the same season conditions and bag 
             4    limits as they have in the special archery-only 
             5    season.  This would basically waive an archer from 
             6    any permit requirements, antlerless deer permits 
             7    or MLD permits, LAMPS permits, whatever, during 
             8    the general season. 
             9                  Our position or our statement that 
            10    we made yesterday is that this would -- we feel, 
            11    would be in conflict with our Chapter 61 
            12    obligation of providing reasonable and equitable 
            13    opportunity to hunters in the season.  We have an 
            14    archery special season that has conditions that 
            15    anyone who wishes to participate may do so.  In 
            16    the general season, we have different conditions.  
            17    And so therefore, staff would recommend that we 
            18    deny this petition.
            19                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Thank you, 
            20    Doctor Cooke.  Any questions?  We have one -- no, 
            21    we have no one signed up on this one. 
            22                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  We have no one 
            23    on this? 
            24                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  No one signed 
            25    up to speak on this one. 
. 0103
             1                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Move approval 
             2    of the agenda.
             3                  COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Second.
             4                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Thank you.  
             5    It's been moved by Commissioner Angelo and 
             6    seconded by Commissioner Idsal. 
             7                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  May I have a 
             8    question, Doctor Cooke?  Did you get input from 
             9    the archery association, although you said no 
            10    public comment on this matter? 
            11                  DR. COOKE:  Mr. Atkins -- I don't 
            12    want to speak for anybody else, obviously.  But 
            13    the discussion that I had with him earlier, they 
            14    supported our recommendation on this issue.  And I 
            15    think if you wished for him to speak to that, he's 
            16    here.  He remained after the last comment, to show 
            17    that support, if you wish to see it.  He didn't 
            18    sign up because he didn't think about --
            19                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Mr. Chairman, I 
            20    recognize that this would be extraordinary, maybe.  
            21    Would it be possible to get a suspension of the 
            22    rules or in this case to allow the Association to 
            23    speak to this issue, since we've heard so much on 
            24    it this morning so far? 
            25                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  I think that 
. 0104
             1    would be fine, Commissioner Henry, if they wish to 
             2    speak on the issue.  Is anyone willing to come 
             3    forward?  Thank you, Doctor Cooke.  Appreciate 
             4    that.  Would you state your name, please, for the 
             5    record. 
             6                  MR. ACTKINSON:  Certainly.  I'm 
             7    Tomme Actkinson.  I'm the president of LSBA, Lone 
             8    Star Bow Hunter Association.  This has just come 
             9    to my attention here in the last few weeks.  So 
            10    really we haven't spent a lot of time thinking on 
            11    it.  It's certainly not a burning issue with the 
            12    Lone Star Bow Hunter Association.  My 
            13    understanding of this is that what Mr. Adams 
            14    wishes to do, is, since he hunts exclusively with 
            15    the bow in East Texas, he wants to -- he wants to 
            16    have the right to take a doe without having a 
            17    special permit as long as he's using archery 
            18    equipment in that particular time. 
            19                  Quite frankly, my concern is, is I 
            20    don't want this to cloud the issue.  We already 
            21    have a special archery season in October which is 
            22    very dear to us, as you observed earlier.  You 
            23    know, so rather than have it cloud the issue of 
            24    bow hunters wanting to have extra bow hunting 
            25    privileges and extra time during the general 
. 0105
             1    season, which other people don't have, I don't 
             2    want that issue to be clouded.  And I would 
             3    support Parks and Wildlife's recommendation that 
             4    it be denied.
             5                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Thank you, 
             6    Mr. Atkinson.
             7                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:   Thank you, 
             8    Madam Chair. 
             9                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Yes.  We have 
            10    before the Commission a motion to accept the staff 
            11    recommendation.  Any further discussion?  Hearing 
            12    none, then all in favor say aye.  Those opposed, 
            13    nay?  Motion carries.  Thank you.
            14                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
            15       "Staff recommends denial of the petition on the 
            16       basis that current regulations concerning bag 
            17       limits are applicable to all hunters equally, 
            18       regardless of means or methods. Staff concurs 
            19       with the petitioners assertion that additional 
            20       harvest by means of archery would result in 
            21       negligible impact on populations; however, 
            22       staff also believes that the provision of 
            23       separable special bag limits contingent upon 
            24       means and methods is inconsistent with the 
            25       provisions of the Wildlife Conservation Act of 
. 0106
             1       1983 (Parks and Wildlife Code, Chapter 61), 
             2       which states that the purpose of the Chapter is 
             3       to insure reasonable and equitable enjoyment of 
             4       the privileges of ownership and pursuit of 
             5       wildlife resources."
             6       AGENDA ITEM NO. 5: ACTION - AMENDMENTS TO THE 
             7       PUBLIC LANDS PROCLAMATION ESTABLISHMENT OF AN 
             8       OPEN SEASON ON PUBLIC LANDS 2001-2001 PROPOSED 
             9       HUNTING ACTIVITIES ON STATE PARKS.
            10                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Next item is 
            11    Item 5, amendments to the public lands 
            12    proclamation and proposed hunting activities on 
            13    state parks.
            14                  MR. KOTHMANN:  Madam Chairman, 
            15    members of the Commission, my name is Herb 
            16    Kothmann.  I'm the Director of Public Hunts.  I'll 
            17    be presenting proposals concerning amendments to 
            18    the public lands proclamation and establishment of 
            19    a 2001-2002 open season on public lands and 
            20    2001-2002 public hunts on state parks. 
            21                  The first portion of this 
            22    presentation deals with proposed amendments to the 
            23    public lands proclamation.  The first proposal is 
            24    that staff proposes to amend the application 
            25    section to update the listing and add two new 
. 0107
             1    areas that were recently acquired: the Lake 
             2    McClellan Recreation Area and the Nannie 
             3    Stringfellow Wildlife Management Area.
             4                  Current rules waive the access 
             5    permit requirement for nonhunting adult who is 
             6    supervising a permitted minor in a youth-only 
             7    hunt.  And again, we're speaking only of public 
             8    hunts. 
             9                  Terms of public hunting lease 
            10    agreements that the Department has with 
            11    cooperating landowners require all adults entering 
            12    those lands to possess a valid access permit.  
            13    This is in conflict -- or this conflict can be 
            14    eliminated by amending the rules to require all 
            15    adults entering public hunting lands to possess a 
            16    valid access permit and clarifying that the fees 
            17    for special and regular permits are waived for the 
            18    supervising adults during these youth-only hunts. 
            19                  On this proposal public comment 
            20    received was 69 in favor and 28 opposed.  Staff 
            21    proposes a change which would allow the Department 
            22    to retain application fees submitted with invalid 
            23    applications for a special permit.  It is no 
            24    longer possible for the agency to return the 
            25    personal checks with invalid applications because 
. 0108
             1    the revenue is removed prior to the time we edit 
             2    the application to determine whether they're valid 
             3    or invalid.  And the cost of processing the 
             4    invalid ones is as much to us as the valid ones.  
             5    So we're recommending that we retain those fees as 
             6    a handling charge.  Public comment on this 
             7    proposal is 57 in favor and 37 opposed.
             8                  Some public hunts for small game are 
             9    conducted by regular or a daily permit.  The 
            10    regular permit fee is waived for people who 
            11    possess the annual $40 permit.  However, current 
            12    rules require that we issue those people the daily 
            13    permit with waiving the fees for the daily permit. 
            14                  This delays the check-in procedure 
            15    and creates unnecessary paperwork.  Staff proposes 
            16    to waive this requirement for issuance of the 
            17    duplicate permit.  On this proposal we had 84 for 
            18    and ten opposed.  I have attempted to revise the 
            19    wording on this that hopefully will be more clear 
            20    than what we spoke about yesterday.
            21                  On occasion an error may be made in 
            22    data entry of the handwritten information on 
            23    application cards.  Consequently an applicant may 
            24    be drawn for a hunt other than the one for which 
            25    they applied.  Current rules require the 
. 0109
             1    preference points for the applicant in the 
             2    concerned hunt category to be reinstated and, if 
             3    the Department detects the error prior to the 
             4    hunt, the permit is canceled and the applicant is 
             5    not authorized to participate in the hunt. 
             6                  However, in many cases the applicant 
             7    wishes to accept that hunt and is willing to 
             8    forfeit their accrued preference points in the 
             9    drawings.  The proposed changed would clarify that 
            10    the applicant's preference points for the 
            11    concerned hunt category would not be reinstated if 
            12    the applicant wishes to accept the hunt in this 
            13    event.  And the proposed change would also provide 
            14    the applicant with the option of making that 
            15    choice.  The public comment on this issue -- and 
            16    like I say, we proposed it under, I think, 
            17    somewhat confusing wording -- was slightly in 
            18    favor, 42 for, 32 opposed.  I do think this would 
            19    be greatly favorable to the public applicants.
            20                  Staff recommends amending the rules 
            21    that clarify requirements for checkin and checkout 
            22    during public hunts by the regular permit.  If 
            23    we -- if the Commission approves the 
            24    recommendation of not issuing that duplicate 
            25    permit, we're simply asking that people hunting on 
. 0110
             1    those hunts under either of the two types of 
             2    permits must comply with the checkin and checkout 
             3    procedures.  Okay. 
             4                  Establishing a minimum age for 
             5    participation in public hunts by special permits.  
             6    It is proposed to require applicants in drawings 
             7    for public hunts by special permit to be a minimum 
             8    of eight years of age at the time of application. 
             9                  Staff believes the minimum age 
            10    requirement would promote safety for all 
            11    participants in the public hunts, improve 
            12    compliance with regulations by increasing the 
            13    likelihood that participants have the physical 
            14    development and skills needed to actively 
            15    participate. 
            16                  And we feel that it would result in 
            17    a more effective utilization of a limited number 
            18    of special permits that the agency has to offer.  
            19    The proposed change would have disqualified only 5 
            20    percent of the youth under age 17 who applied in 
            21    the drawings last year, 198 of the 3,625 youth and 
            22    less than three-tenths of 1 percent of the total 
            23    applicants that we had in last year's drawing. 
            24                  The proposed minimum age restriction 
            25    would not apply to public hunts conducted by 
. 0111
             1    regular permit or annual public hunting permit.  
             2    We're speaking about only the drawings for the big 
             3    game hunts.  Public comment on this issue was very 
             4    strongly for, 82 for and 14 opposed.  I might 
             5    mention as a side light, the discussion we had a 
             6    moment ago about this on the statewide 
             7    regulations, on these lands the Department is 
             8    acting as the landowner. 
             9                  In the case of statewide rules, the 
            10    landowner makes those decisions.  These are the 
            11    rules that we are making for us as the landowner 
            12    or you are. 
            13                  The second portion of this 
            14    presentation deals with the recommendations for 
            15    public hunts on state parks.  Staff proposes to 
            16    conduct public hunts on 45 units of the State 
            17    Parks' System during the 2001-2002 season.  The 45 
            18    units include the 42 units hunted last year or 
            19    approved for hunting last year by the Commission 
            20    plus one unit that had been hunted in previous 
            21    years, Dinosaur Valley, and two new units that 
            22    have not previously been hunted, Cooper Lake, 
            23    South Sulfur and the Lake Bob Sandlin. 
            24                  The following is a series of three 
            25    slides that list in alphabetical order the names 
. 0112
             1    of those 45 state park units.  Specific 
             2    recommendations for each of those parks is shown 
             3    in your Exhibit B of your agenda item.  This first 
             4    slide shows the names of the first 14 of those 
             5    parks.  The second slide lists the following 17 
             6    parks on that list of 45.  And this slide lists 
             7    the final 14 of the 45 recommended for hunts.  The 
             8    proposals for state park hunts were developed 
             9    through joint effort of staff of the State Park 
            10    Division and the Wildlife Division. 
            11                  They have received signature 
            12    approval of all concerned field staff and in-line 
            13    supervisors.  They were presented at the statewide 
            14    hearings held around the state.  The recommended 
            15    hunt dates, as shown in Exhibit B, minimize impact 
            16    on park visitation.  Those hunts that are 
            17    youth-only are scheduled on days when kids are out 
            18    of school, weekends and holiday periods, although 
            19    we did avoid the -- you know, holding these youth 
            20    hunts on major holidays because those are also big 
            21    for general visitation activities. 
            22                  The recommendations are considered 
            23    by staff to be a biologically sound and address 
            24    the Commission's mandate to provide maximum 
            25    opportunity for public hunting on departmental 
. 0113
             1    lands as appropriate for individual sites.  The 
             2    recommended hunts address management needs and 
             3    provide for additional public use opportunity.  
             4    Public comment received on this proposal for state 
             5    park hunts was 90 for and one opposed. 
             6                  The final portion of my presentation 
             7    deals with the need for the Commission to 
             8    prescribe an open season on public hunting lands 
             9    in order for public hunts to be conducted.  Parks 
            10    and Wildlife Code authorizes the Commission to 
            11    prescribe an open season for hunting on wildlife 
            12    management areas and public hunting lands in 
            13    accordance with sound biological management 
            14    practices.  And staff recommends the Commission 
            15    prescribe an open season on public hunting lands 
            16    to run from September 1, 2001 to August 31, 2002. 
            17                  Staff recommends the Parks and 
            18    Wildlife Commission adopt the following motions, 
            19    which are in three parts:  One, the Texas Parks 
            20    and Wildlife Commission adopts amendments to 31 
            21    TAC, Section 65.190, 65.193, 65.197, 65.198 and 
            22    65.202 concerning the public lands proclamation 
            23    with changes to the proposed text as published in 
            24    the February 23rd, 2001 issue of Texas Register. 
            25                  Part two, the Texas Parks and 
. 0114
             1    Wildlife Commission authorizes the hunting 
             2    activities designated in Exhibit B to be conducted 
             3    on the listed units of the State Park System.  And 
             4    part three, the Texas Parks and Wildlife 
             5    Commission authorizes an open hunting season on 
             6    public hunting lands to run from September 1, 2001 
             7    to August 31, 2002. 
             8                  Madam Chairman, this concludes my 
             9    presentation.  Do you have any questions?
            10                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Thank you, 
            11    Mr. Kothmann.  Any questions from any of the 
            12    members?  Hearing none, then.  We do have public 
            13    comment on this item.  And first is Ellis 
            14    Gilleland.  Mr. Gilleland?  And following 
            15    Mr. Gilleland, David Langford. 
            16                  MR. GILLELAND:  My name is Ellis 
            17    Gilleland.  I'm speaking for Texas Animals, which 
            18    is a animal rights organization on the Internet.  
            19    As published in the Texas Register, there are a 
            20    total of 53 different units that are being covered 
            21    under this public lands aspect.  In addition to 
            22    state parks, there are scientific areas, 
            23    recreation areas and wildlife management areas, 53 
            24    different categories of units. 
            25                  Within that 53, one category is 
. 0115
             1    state parks.  My recommendation to you is to 
             2    eliminate from the state parks category those 
             3    state parks which have tamed animals which are 
             4    going to be hunted.  And I speak for Choke Canyon 
             5    State Park, which I know specifically.  You walk 
             6    through Choke Canyon State Park with a can of 
             7    corn, and you rattle the can of corn.  And the 
             8    deer come out and come up to you to be petted and 
             9    to be hand fed. 
            10                  So I'm asking you to exempt from 
            11    this not of -- all the wildlife management areas 
            12    and all the others.  I'm asking you to exempt from 
            13    the State One category, the state park category 
            14    the state parks.  They have tame animals.  When 
            15    you walk through them with a can of corn and you 
            16    rattle it, the deer come running up to you. 
            17                  It's my understanding that there is 
            18    a concept the hunters have that has to do with 
            19    fair chase to the extent that Boone and Crockett 
            20    does not count, animals shot behind a high fence 
            21    mark.  So that's what I'm asking you.  I'm asking 
            22    you to reach for an ethical rung on the ladder and 
            23    climb up to it.  And that ethical rung is to 
            24    actually put teeth into the ethical concept if 
            25    there be such that hunters do not shoot animals 
. 0116
             1    without a fair chase. 
             2                  And I don't think it's fair chase to 
             3    rattle a can of corn and animals come up to you 
             4    and then you shoot them.  So I'm asking you to 
             5    exempt those animals that are tame in those few 
             6    state parks that have them.  Thank you. 
             7                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Thank you, 
             8    Mr. Gilleland.  Mr. Langford? 
             9                  MR. LANGFORD:  Thank you.  I'm David 
            10    Langford, Texas Wildlife Association and would 
            11    like to wholeheartedly support the staff 
            12    recommendation on this issue and also to 
            13    congratulate Mr. Kothmann for 35 years.  That's 
            14    pretty amazing.  Thank you. 
            15                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Thank you, 
            16    Mr. Langford.  That concludes the public testimony 
            17    on Agenda Item Number 5.  Is there any comment by 
            18    any of the Commissioners or any questions of 
            19    Mr. Kothmann?  Hearing none, the Chair would 
            20    entertain a motion for approval of Agenda Item 
            21    Number 5.
            22                  COMMISSIONER WATSON:  So moved.
            23                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:   Second.
            24                  VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Thank you.  Any 
            25    further discussion?  All in favor say aye.  Those 
. 0117
             1    opposed nay?  Motion carries.  Thank you. 
             2                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
             3       "1.  The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission 
             4       adopts amendments to 31 TAC 65.190, 65.193, 
             5       65.197, 65.198, and 65.202, concerning the 
             6       Public Lands Proclamation, with changes to the 
             7       proposed text as published in the February 
             8       23, 2001, issue of the Texas (25 TexReg 1680).
             9        
            10       2.  The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission 
            11       authorizes the hunting activities designated in 
            12       Exhibit B to be conducted on the listed units 
            13       of the state park system.
            14        
            15       3.  The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission 
            16       authorizes an open hunting season on public 
            17       hunting lands to run from September 1, 2001 to 
            18       August 31, 2002."
            19                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you very much. 
            20    Gary Graham, briefing, World Birding Center. 
            21       AGENDA ITEM NO. 6: BRIEFING - WORLD BIRDING 
            22       CENTER.
            23                      (WHEREUPON, a briefing
            24                      item was presented to the 
            25                      Commissioners, after which, 
. 0118
             1                      the following proceedings
             2                      were had:)
             3       AGENDA ITEM NO. 7: ACTION - SCIENTIFIC BREEDER 
             4       PROCLAMATION.
             5                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Scientific breeder 
             6    proclamation, Doctor Cooke.  Basically as I 
             7    understand it, your proposal is that we withdraw 
             8    this from today's agenda? 
             9                  DR. COOKE:  Exactly.  That's the 
            10    short version.  I liked it better. 
            11                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  So done.  We'll 
            12    withdraw this and look forward to hearing from you 
            13    in May on revised proclamation.
            14       "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts 
            15       amendments to 31 TAC 65.601, 65.602, 65.605, 
            16       and 65.607-65.610, concerning the Scientific 
            17       Breeder Proclamation, with changes to the 
            18       proposed text as published in the March 2, 
            19       2001, issue of the Texas Register (24 TexReg 
            20       1826)."
            21       AGENDA ITEM NO. 8: BRIEFING - STATUS OF EASTERN 
            22       TURKEY RESTORATION PROGRAM.
            23                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Eastern wild 
            24    turkeys.
            25                        (WHEREUPON, a briefing
. 0119
             1                        item was presented to the 
             2                        Commissioners, after which, 
             3                        the following proceedings
             4                        were had:)
             5       AGENDA ITEM NO. 9: BRIEFING - WYLER AERIAL 
             6       TRAMWAY - FRANKLIN MOUNTAINS STATE PARK.
             7                        (WHEREUPON, a briefing
             8                        item was presented to the 
             9                        Commissioners, after which, 
            10                        the following proceedings
            11                        were had:)
            12       AGENDA ITEM NO. 10: ACTION - REGIONAL PARK 
            13       FUNDING.
            14                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Item 10, Regional 
            15    park funding, Tim Hogsett, please.
            16                   MR. HOGSETT:  Mr. Chairman, members 
            17    of the Commission, I'm Tim Hogsett, Director of 
            18    Recreation Grants Program in the State Parks 
            19    Division.  We're bringing forward for your 
            20    consideration today regional park grants.  This 
            21    will be the second of two -- second review in our 
            22    pilot program for regional parks.  You're 
            23    probably -- you'll be aware that the program is 
            24    designed to support multi-jurisdictional projects 
            25    that have regional significance in the 
. 0120
             1    metropolitan areas of the state. 
             2                  This was the result of an A & M -- 
             3    Texas A & M study that was done a few years back 
             4    showing that that was a great need in the State of 
             5    Texas.  Projects can be of two different types.  
             6    They can be intensive use recreation or regional 
             7    conservation and recreation projects.  And as I 
             8    said, this is the second review.  We're 
             9    recommending three projects. 
            10                  There were 12 applications which 
            11    were submitted to us, requesting 11.9 million 
            12    dollars.  We use our scoring system to evaluate 
            13    those 12 projects, rank ordered them and are 
            14    recommending the funding of the first three 
            15    projects.  Those being the San Antonio-Medina 
            16    River Regional Park, the Arlington-Trinity River 
            17    Regional Park, and the League City-Clear Creek 
            18    Regional Park. 
            19                  All three of these involve major 
            20    land acquisitions, conservation elements, and are 
            21    associated with major river access.
            22                  Having said that, the staff 
            23    recommendation is that funding for projects listed 
            24    in Exhibit A in the amount of $3,163,599 is 
            25    approved, as described for individual projects in 
. 0121
             1    Exhibit B.  And I'd be happy to answer any 
             2    questions that you might have. 
             3                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  There are some 
             4    people who signed up to speak on this one.  And 
             5    if -- I appreciate their patience in bearing with 
             6    us through a long agenda today.  Pete Jamison from 
             7    the City of Arlington, if you'd come forward.  And 
             8    Dale Bransford from San Antonio, if you'd be ready 
             9    to come up next.  Thank you very much, Mr. 
            10    Jamison, for being patient. 
            11                  MR. JAMISON:  Thank you, 
            12    Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission.  We're 
            13    very appreciative this funding of the 
            14    appropriations to the regional grant program.  
            15    This program is extremely important because it 
            16    really allows us to invest in some of our most 
            17    popular parks and indeed some of our most 
            18    congested parks.  River Legacy Parks which really 
            19    serves a regional area between Fort Worth and 
            20    Grand Prairie -- well, probably one of our most 
            21    popular parks, certainly Arlington's most popular 
            22    park.  And it's so congested that recently this 
            23    past weekend we received a number of complaint 
            24    about the time it takes just to exit the park. 
            25                  This grant will give us the 
. 0122
             1    opportunity to provide a second entrance at the 
             2    park and to also link over eight miles of trails 
             3    along the Trinity River.  We want to express our 
             4    appreciation to the Texas Parks and Wildlife 
             5    staff, Tim Hogsett and Elaine Dill in particular, 
             6    for all of their efforts and support of the 
             7    Arlington Parks and Recreation Department.  Thank 
             8    you.
             9                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you very much.  
            10    Dale Bransford.  And Ed Sebasta from League City 
            11    if you will be ready.  Thank you.  Good morning or 
            12    afternoon, I gather. 
            13                  MR. BRANSFORD:  Good afternoon, 
            14    Mr. Chairman and ladies and gentlemen of the 
            15    Commission.  I'm Dale Bransford, Park Projects 
            16    Manager with the City of San Antonio and on behalf 
            17    of our agency and our six other partners in this 
            18    regional park project, we want to express to you 
            19    our encouragement that you will accept the staff 
            20    recommendation to grant the award for the Medina 
            21    River Regional Park Project.  In fact, we would we 
            22    look forward to welcoming the Texas Parks and 
            23    Wildlife Department as one of the partners with us 
            24    in that project. 
            25                  We are very excited about it, as you 
. 0123
             1    might suspect.  The project is a very unique 
             2    resource in south Bexar County.  It will certainly 
             3    serve the citizens of San Antonio and Bexar 
             4    County, but we're also envisioning it being a 
             5    strong integral part of the park and recreation 
             6    system in south Central Texas. 
             7                  The grant will allow us to acquire 
             8    land and develop the unique site along an 
             9    undisturbed portion of the Medina River that will 
            10    be used to enhance its rich cultural and natural 
            11    resources.
            12                  In addition to the grant 
            13    specifically, I also wanted to acknowledge and 
            14    encourage the Commission to continue the regional 
            15    park grant program.  Its short life as a pilot 
            16    program has proven to be a very vital tool, I 
            17    believe, in  your tool kit of grant assistance 
            18    that can be made available to eligible applicants 
            19    around the state along with a variety of other 
            20    grant programs that you fund, this one 
            21    particularly with its vision to emphasize 
            22    partnerships and regional concepts is already 
            23    proving to be very much needed and very 
            24    successful.  And we encourage and hope that the 
            25    Commission and the staff will continue to offer 
. 0124
             1    that program to us at the local level. 
             2                  And also, as Pete mentioned, wanted 
             3    to thank the staff of the Grants and Aid Division 
             4    for all their support on this project and others 
             5    that we've benefited from in the past.  Thank you. 
             6                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you very much.  
             7    Ed Sebasta.  And Rhonda Seirus, you'll be up next.
             8                  MR. SEBASTA:  Good afternoon, 
             9    Chairman, Commissioners.  I'm city councilman Ed 
            10    Sebasta from the great city of League City.  And 
            11    just would like to take a few moments to thank 
            12    y'all very much for your consideration as well as 
            13    thanking your staff for recommending this very 
            14    important project to not only the folks in League 
            15    City but the surrounding communities in Galveston 
            16    County. 
            17                  In the early '90s we started on our 
            18    journey in League City with our master parks plan.  
            19    When we put that footprint down in the sand in our 
            20    blueprint, if you will, this piece of the puzzle 
            21    we recognized back then was very important to 
            22    preserving the natural resource that we have 
            23    running through League City, and that's Clear 
            24    Creek.  As we've gone along on that journey, we're 
            25    at this point now and quite frankly we're very 
. 0125
             1    excited about it.  Our citizens are very excited 
             2    about it.  And that's pretty much all I'm going to 
             3    say.  We have our parks board members here, and 
             4    I'm going to yield the rest of the time to them 
             5    because those are the true heroes.  Those are our 
             6    volunteers that usually never get the credit and 
             7    usually get a lot of the flack from our citizens.  
             8    As an elected official I never get flack from the 
             9    citizens, so... Thank you very much. 
            10                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you very much.  
            11    Ms. Seirus.  And Barbara Meeks, if you'll be up 
            12    next, please.  Thank you. 
            13                  MS. SEIRUS:  Commissioners, good 
            14    afternoon.  My name is Rhonda Seirus.  I'm the 
            15    Park and Recreation superintendent for the City of 
            16    League City.  And we are here to request your 
            17    support for the Clear Creek Nature Project in 
            18    League City.  League City feels this is an 
            19    important component of our ecosystem in our region 
            20    and also our watershed. 
            21                  We sincerely appreciate your support 
            22    and efforts to preserve park land in the State of 
            23    Texas.  And I would also like to take this 
            24    opportunity to thank Elaine Dill and Tim Hogsett 
            25    for all their support with our projects.  Thank 
. 0126
             1    you.
             2                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you very much.  
             3    Ms. Meeks.  And Debbie McDonald, you'll be after 
             4    Ms. Meeks.  Thank you. 
             5                  MS. MEEKS:  Good afternoon, 
             6    Mr. Chairman, Commissioners.  I'm Barbara 
             7    Meeks,and I am a member of the parks board in 
             8    League City, and probably more important than 
             9    that, I have lived in League City for well over 30 
            10    years.  I've seen land go from $1500 an acre to 
            11    well over $15,000 an acre.  And a project like 
            12    this just would not be possible without 
            13    partnership.  And certainly Texas Parks and 
            14    Wildlife is a terrific partner to have on this 
            15    project. 
            16                  We've seen our natural habitat 
            17    quickly disappear.  I know that we've seen that 
            18    all over parts of the State.  And it turns out 
            19    that this particular piece of land will have some 
            20    very historical significance in that some of the 
            21    artifacts from the Midden right in the middle of 
            22    this area has been dated at Rice to go back to 
            23    5000 BC, making it the oldest Midden in that area. 
            24                  So I do appreciate your time in 
            25    taking this into consideration.  And we certainly 
. 0127
             1    do appreciate your support of the Clear Creek 
             2    Nature Center.  Thank you. 
             3                  MR. SANSOM:  Mr. Chairman, I would 
             4    also like to comment that Ms. Meeks is also a 
             5    great supporter of Sea Center Texas.  She sponsors 
             6    the Tarpon Tournament that provided very much 
             7    needed financial support for us there.  I 
             8    appreciate it, Barbara. 
             9                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  As do we all.  
            10    Ms. McDonald, please. 
            11                  MS. McDONALD:  Good afternoon.  I'm 
            12    Debbie McDonald.  I'm president of the park board 
            13    for the City of League City.  And I just want to 
            14    say we are here to support the request for the 
            15    Clear Creek Nature Park.  This is an important 
            16    multi-use -- excuse me, multi-jurisdiction park.  
            17    Just want to add our support.  Thank you for your 
            18    support.  Thank you. 
            19                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  There's no other 
            20    public comment.  The Chair would entertain 
            21    discussion or a motion.
            22                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Motion to accept 
            23    it.
            24                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second it.
            25                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion and a second.  
. 0128
             1    All in favor?  Any opposed?  Motion carries.  
             2    Thank you. 
             3                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
             4       "Funding for projects listed in Exhibit A in 
             5       the amount of $3,163,599.00 is approved, as 
             6       described for individual projects in 
             7       Exhibit B."
             8       AGENDA ITEM NO. 12: BRIEFING - TEXAS TECH 
             9       HISTORY EXHIBIT.
            10                        (WHEREUPON, a briefing
            11                        item was presented to the 
            12                        Commissioners, after which, 
            13                        the following proceedings
            14                        were had:)
            15                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Hogsett?  Let's 
            16    see, 11 we have taken care of.  Item 12, I believe 
            17    Mr. Sansom covered adequately in his opening 
            18    statement.  And we'll move to Item 13, Karen 
            19    Leslie, please
            20       AGENDA ITEM NO. 13:  ACTION - LAND 
            21       ACQUISITION - UVALDE COUNTY.  
            22                  MS. LESLIE:  I'm Karen Leslie in 
            23    Land Conservation.  Chairman and Commissioners, 
            24    this is an item that reflects a summary of the 
            25    Conservation Committee executive session item 
. 0129
             1    presented yesterday that we discussed.  The 
             2    property contains 35 acres.  It fronts on the Frio 
             3    River, protects Garner State Park from undesirable 
             4    land uses.  Are there any questions? 
             5                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  This item was 
             6    approved by the Conservation Committee in 
             7    executive session.  And if there's no public 
             8    comment, the Chair would entertain a motion.
             9                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:   Move approval 
            10    of the recommendation.
            11                  COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Second.
            12                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion is seconded.  
            13    Any discussion?  All in favor?  Any opposed?  
            14    Hearing none, the motion passes.  Thank you
            15                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
            16       "The Executive Director is authorized to take 
            17       all steps necessary to consummate the 
            18       acquisition of approximately 35.05 acres in 
            19       Uvalde County as an addition to Garner
            20       State Park."
            21                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Ms. Leslie, would 
            22    you do Item 14 for us, Randall County.
            23       AGENDA ITEM NO. 14: ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - 
            24       RANDALL COUNTY.
            25                  MS. LESLIE:  Yes, sir.  Chairman and 
. 0130
             1    Commissioners, this item reflects a summary of the 
             2    Conservation Committee executive session item 
             3    presented yesterday.  The property contains 2,036 
             4    acres.  It shares four miles common boundary with 
             5    the park. 
             6                  The Amarillo Area Foundation has 
             7    agreed to endow the park for the purchase price of 
             8    $1.2 million for ten years.  The Commission 
             9    desires that the Amarillo Area Foundation will 
            10    endow the park for $1.2 million with a guaranteed 
            11    payment of 5 percent annually over ten years.  Any 
            12    questions? 
            13                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  There is no public 
            14    comment.  And the Conservation Committee yesterday 
            15    approved this with the amendment that Ms. Leslie 
            16    referred to as a caveat for the purchase.  The 
            17    Chair would entertain a motion.
            18                  COMMISSIONER WATSON:  So moved.
            19                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Second? 
            20                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:   Second.
            21                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion is seconded.  
            22    Any discussion?  All in favor?  Any opposed? 
            23    Motion carries.  Thank you.
            24                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
            25       "The Executive Director is authorized to 
. 0131
             1       purchase approximately 2,036 acres in Randall 
             2       county as an addition to Palo Duro Canyon State 
             3       Park with the condition that the Amarillo Area 
             4       Foundation will endow the park for 
             5       $1.2 million with a guaranteed payment of 5% 
             6       annually over ten years."
             7       AGENDA ITEM NO. 15: ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - 
             8       BREWSTER COUNTY.
             9                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Jeff Francell, 
            10    Brewster County, please. 
            11                  MR. FRANCELL:  Ladies and gentlemen 
            12    of the Commission, I'm Jeff Francell, Director of 
            13    Land Acquisition for the Department.  The property 
            14    I'm going to be talking about today is Black Gap 
            15    Wildlife Management area in Brewster County.  
            16    We're looking at two tracts.  One is 80 acres, and 
            17    one is 160 acres.  Any questions? 
            18                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  There's no public 
            19    comment on this.  Once again, it was heard and 
            20    approved in Conservation Committee.  The Chair 
            21    would entertain a motion.
            22                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:   Move 
            23    approval.
            24                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion.  And a 
            25    second? 
. 0132
             1                  COMMISSIONER HEATH:  Second.
             2                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  All in favor?  Any 
             3    opposed?  Thank you very much.
             4                      (Motion passed unanimously.)
             5       "The Executive Director is authorized to take 
             6       all necessary steps to consummate the 
             7       acquisition of approximately 240 acres in 
             8       Brewster County as an addition to Black Gap
             9       Wildlife Management Area."
            10                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Sansom, is there 
            11    any other business to come before this Commission 
            12    today? 
            13                  MR. SANSOM:  No, sir, there is not.
            14                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Being none, we stand 
            15    adjourned.  Thank you.  
            16                         *-*-*-*-*
            17                   (MEETING ADJOURNED.)
            18                         *-*-*-*-*
            19    
            20    
            21    
            22    
            23    
            24    
            25    
. 0133
             1                 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
             2    STATE OF TEXAS   )
             3    COUNTY OF TRAVIS )
             4    
             5             I, MELODY RENEE DeYOUNG, a Certified 
             6    Court Reporter in and for the State of Texas, do 
             7    hereby certify that the above and foregoing 119 
             8    pages constitute a full, true and correct 
             9    transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and 
            10    Wildlife Commission on APRIL 5, 2001, in the 
            11    Commission hearing room of the Texas Parks and 
            12    Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, Travis 
            13    County, Texas.
            14          I FURTHER CERTIFY that a stenographic record 
            15    was made by me a the time of the public meeting 
            16    and said stenographic notes were thereafter 
            17    reduced to computerized transcription under my 
            18    supervision and control.
            19          WITNESS MY HAND this the 10TH day of MAY 
            20    2001. 
            21    
                                                                   
            22             MELODY RENEE DeYOUNG, RPR, CSR NO. 3226
                           Expiration Date:  12-31-02
            23             3101 Bee Caves Road
                           Centre II, Suite 220
            24             Austin, Texas  78746
                           (512) 328-5557
            25    EBS NO. 40492
                  
. 0134
             1                                                    
                                    Lee M. Bass, Chairman
             2    
                  
             3    
                                                                 
             4                      Carol E. Dinkins, Vice Chair
                  
             5    
                  
             6                                                   
                                    Dick W. Heath
             7    
                  
             8    
                                                                 
             9                      Nolan Ryan
                  
            10    
                  
            11                                                   
                                    Ernest Angelo, Jr.
            12    
                  
            13    
                                                                 
            14                      John Avila, Jr.
                  
            15    
                  
            16                                                    
                                    Alvin L. Henry
            17    
                  
            18    
                                                                  
            19                      Katharine Armstrong Idsal
                  
            20    
                  
            21                                                    
                                    Mark E. Watson, Jr.
            22    
                  
            23    
                  
            24                        *-*-*-*-*
            25    

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