Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Public Hearing

Aug. 30, 2001

Commission Hearing Room
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744

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           6             BE IT REMEMBERED that heretofore on the 30th day  

           7   of August of 2001, there came on to be heard matters under 

           8   the regulatory authority of the Parks and Wildlife 

           9   Commission of Texas, in the Commission Hearing room of 

          10   Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, 

          11   Travis County, Texas, beginning at 9:00 a.m., to wit: 

          12   APPEARANCES: 
               THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION 
          13    

          14   Katharine Armstrong Idsal, Dallas, Texas, Chairman 
               John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas 
          15   Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas 
               Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas 
          16   Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas, Vice-Chair 
               Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas 
          17   Philip Montgomery, Dallas, Texas 
               Joseph Fitzsimons, San Antonio, Texas 
          18   Donato D. Ramos, Laredo, Texas 

          19    

          20   THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT: 

          21   Andrew Sansom, Executive Director 
               Other personnel of the Parks and Wildlife Department 
          22    

          23    

          24    

          25    


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           1   OTHER APPEARANCES: 

           2   1.  Dona Roth Kinney, City of Keller, 541 Keller Pkwy.,  
                   Keller, Texas  76248 
           3   2.  Chris Basham, City of Granbury, 116 West Bridge,          
                   Granbury, TX. 
           4   3.  Arthur A. Jistel, River Place Municipal Utility      
                   District, 9704 Big View Drive, Austin, TX  78730 
           5   4.  Jerry Cummins, City of Childress, Box 1087, Childress,    
                   TX  79201 
           6   5.  Lonnie Flores, Mayor of Donna, 307 S. 12th St., Donna,  
                   TX  72532 
           7   6.  Anne Ochoa, City of Lago Vista, 20905 Ridgeview Road, 
                   Lago Vista, TX  78645 
           8   7.  Lisa Birkman, Brushy Creek MUD, 901 Great Oaks Dr.,  
                   Round Rock, TX  78681 
           9   8.  Bob Duke, DUKE Landscape Architecture & Planning,    
                   Sienna Plantation MUD and City of Texas City, 1815 K,    
          10       Galveston, TX  77550 
               9.  Bob Duke, DUKE Landscape Architecture & Planning,    
          11       Sienna Plantation MUD and City of Texas City, 1815 K,    
                   Galveston, TX  77550 
          12   10.  David K. Langford, Texas Wildlife Association 
               11.  Jerry Johnston, Texas Deer Association, POB 791107,     
          13        San Antonio, TX  78274 
               12.  Ellis Gilleland, Texas Animals, POB 9001, Austin, TX   
          14        78766 

          15    

          16   

          17   

          18   

          19   

          20   

          21   

          22   

          23   

          24   

          25   


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           1                      PUBLIC HEARING 

           2                   * * * * * * * * * * 

           3                     AUGUST 30, 2001 

           4                   * * * * * * * * * * 

           5                        9:00 A.M. 

           6                   * * * * * * * * * * 

           7                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Good morning.  The meeting 

           8   is called to order.  Before proceeding with any business, 

           9   Mr. Sansom has a statement to make. 

          10                  MR. SANSOM:  Mr. Chairman, members of the 

          11   Commission, ladies and gentlemen, a public notice 

          12   containing that all items on the proposed agenda have been 

          13   filed in the Office of the Secretary of the State.  This 

          14   is required by Chapter 551 of the Government Code and 

          15   referred to as the Open Meetings Law.  I would like for 

          16   this action to be noted in the official record of the 

          17   meeting. 

          18             Ladies and gentlemen, we welcome you this 

          19   morning.  We had a wonderful day yesterday at our annual 

          20   public meeting.  As you know, Chairman Idsal, is in charge 

          21   of the meeting.  I will assist her, as always, as kind of 

          22   a Sergeant at Arms.  And I want to remind you that if you 

          23   would like to speak today, we have sign-up cards out in 

          24   the hall.  And the Chairman will use those cards to call 

          25   you forward when you wish to speak.  Each person -- I ask 


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           1   you to come forward and speak from this podium, and you 

           2   will have three minutes to make your remarks.  Please 

           3   state your name and who you represent if anyone other than 

           4   yourself.  Chairman may call the next person in line, so 

           5   if you would come and stand in the back of the room, then 

           6   we can move the meeting along efficiently.   

           7             As I said, everyone will have three minutes to 

           8   speak, and we definitely want to hear what you have to 

           9   say.  And I'll notify you with this little traffic light 

          10   here when your three minutes are up.  Your time may be 

          11   extended if a Commissioner has a question for you, or if 

          12   the Commissioners talk amongst themselves that time will 

          13   not be counted, either.  I would ask, as always, that you 

          14   keep your remarks on a professional level and not be 

          15   argumentative or critical of either our staff or our 

          16   commission or anyone else in the room out of respect for 

          17   the rest of the people who are here with us today.   

          18             If have you any materials that you would like to 

          19   submit to the Commission, my associate, Lori Estrada here, 

          20   will take them and distribute them, so please give 

          21   anything that you would like for the Commissioners to see 

          22   to Ms. Estrada.  Thank you, Madame Chairman. 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Mr. Sansom.  

          24   Next, the approval of the minutes, which have already been 

          25   distributed.  Is there a motion for approval? 


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           1                  VICE CHAIR DINKINS:  Madame Chair, I did 

           2   note one correction.  It is on Page 46, Line 19, and I 

           3   believe that the deer may not be trapped from a breeding 

           4   facility rather than a bleeding facility. 

           5                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Madame Vice 

           6   Chairman. 

           7                  VICE CHAIR DINKINS:  With that correction, 

           8   I move approval of the minutes. 

           9                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  A motion for 

          10   approval by Commissioner Dinkins.  Do I have a second? 

          11                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  I propose to 

          12   that, because I am in favor of humor in minutes. 

          13                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second. 

          14                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor, say aye.  

          15   Any opposed?  Hearing none, the motion carries. 

          16             Next is the acceptance of the gifts, which have 

          17   also been distributed.  Is there a motion for -- thank 

          18   you.  A second?   

          19                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Motion. 

          20                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second.  

          21                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?  Any 

          22   opposed?  Hearing none, it passes.   

          23             Next are the retirement certificates and service 

          24   awards.  Mr. Sansom, would you please make your 

          25   presentations? 


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           1                  MR. SANSOM:  Madame Chairman, if you could 

           2   join me at the podium at this time.  I know you share with 

           3   me the belief that this is as important a part of these 

           4   meetings as any other item on the agenda, and that is when 

           5   we take the opportunity to recognize the people of our 

           6   Department who have served this state so well.   

           7             All of us had the great privilege of 

           8   participating the other evening in our employee 

           9   recognition awards, and I was most gratified by the 

          10   comments that I received from our newest member, 

          11   Commissioner Ramos, about how strongly he sensed the 

          12   commitment to professionalism among the employees and a 

          13   feeling of this Department as being a family.  And I know 

          14   that we all feel that way, and we welcome you, sir, to our 

          15   family. 

          16                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Thank you.  Thank you. 

          17                  MR. SANSOM:  Retiring today is a person 

          18   with whom I have worked very closely in all the years that 

          19   I have been here, a person with whom I have complete 

          20   trust.  When I came to work at Parks and Wildlife, one of 

          21   the first things that we did was to create an Internal 

          22   Affairs Division.  And I believe that because -- partially 

          23   because of that Internal Affairs Division, this Department 

          24   has been completely free of any scandals for 11 years.  

          25   One of the key people in that Department is a senior 


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           1   auditor, David Heater.  He began to work at Parks and 

           2   Wildlife in 1973 as an auditor, and today he is a senior 

           3   auditor and our Chief Forensic Auditor.  And he is 

           4   retiring after 28 years of service to Texas.  David Heater 

           5   from here in Austin.   

           6                       (Applause.) 

           7                  MR. SANSOM:  There are also employees who 

           8   we recognize today who are not retiring but who have 

           9   worked here for many years and thankfully continue to do 

          10   so.  As I travel throughout South Texas, which I have the 

          11   opportunity to do several times each year, I probably hear 

          12   as many favorable comments about Ken Baker as any employee 

          13   in the Department.  You will hear a presentation later 

          14   today from Texas Tech University that, among other things, 

          15   will disclose to you that in nationwide surveys, it is -- 

          16   it has been determined that the Texas Game Wardens are 

          17   thought of more highly than conservation law enforcement 

          18   officers in any other state in the United States, and 

          19   that's because of people like Ken Baker.  He's worked in 

          20   Parks and Wildlife for 30 years.  He is a Game Warden V 

          21   and he has -- his only duty station has been in McAllen, 

          22   where he remains today.  Please recognize, with 30 years 

          23   of service, Game Warden Kenneth Baker from McAllen.   

          24                  (Applause.) 

          25                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, Ken. 


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           1             We have been occasionally been called a lot of 

           2   things here in this Department.  I received a letter not 

           3   too long ago from a friend of mine in Palm Beach, Florida, 

           4   and he had clipped an article out of the Wall Street 

           5   Journal that said that Texas Parks and Wildlife had the 

           6   most aggressive fisheries managers in the United States.  

           7   And as a result of that, along with the support of 

           8   anglers, we probably had one of the most wonderful 

           9   fisheries in the United States.   

          10             Today we recognize John Moczygemba.  John came 

          11   to work at Parks and Wildlife in 1969, studying flathead 

          12   catfish on the Medina and Rio Grande Rivers.  He went to 

          13   the Army for a while, but came back and worked at Lake 

          14   Texoma at a fishery station.  He was involved in the first 

          15   introduction of striped bass into Texas, and he was 

          16   involved in all aspects of that including brood stock 

          17   procurement, which, of course, is a nice euphemism, and 

          18   spawning operations.  He was involved in the experimental 

          19   stocking of walleye and in primary studies of hooking 

          20   mortalities of striped bass in Lake Texoma.   

          21             John's work on Lake Ray Roberts along with his 

          22   colleague, Bruce Hysmith, who is here today, has produced 

          23   a great new fishery in Texas and one of the most balanced 

          24   fisheries in the southern United States with not only 

          25   largemouth bass but channel catfish crappie and white 


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           1   bass.   

           2             He served on the Texas Chapter of the American 

           3   Fishery Society, and he is a colleague who has made a 

           4   great contribution to fisheries management in Texas.  John 

           5   Moczygemba from Inland Fisheries with 30 years of service. 

           6                  (Applause.) 

           7                  MR. SANSOM:  During this legislative 

           8   session, we heard a lot about radios.  And some of the 

           9   unsung heroes of our Department are the people who make 

          10   sure that all our communication system is up-to-date and 

          11   is kept functioning, particularly since so much of the 

          12   technology is so outdated.  Charles Olive began to work at 

          13   Parks and Wildlife in 1971 as a radio installer.  At that 

          14   time there were only three radio technicians who covered 

          15   the entire state.  The radios, the towers, the 

          16   dispatchers, the whole system was maintained statewide, so 

          17   basically Charles was on the road about three weeks out of 

          18   the month and here about a week.   

          19             Over the years we were able to add more and more 

          20   radio technicians and so he was able to share the 

          21   workload, but now we're back down to Charles and one other 

          22   operator in the Austin shop.  And today they take care of 

          23   everything in the radio system within a day's drive from 

          24   Austin, and it's all working thanks to Charles Olive with 

          25   30 years of service. 


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           1                  (Applause.)  

           2                  MR. SANSOM:  Bill Robinson active in the 

           3   Texas Game Warden Association, a Game Warden since 1967.  

           4   His first station was in Burnet County.  He moved to 

           5   Travis County in 1975, and over the years has been an 

           6   instructor at the Academy, a district supervisor in 

           7   Kerrville and at one time supervised an area from Johnson 

           8   City to Sonora.  He worked in the Austin office as an 

           9   Assistant Commander, and he is a long-serving and 

          10   dedicated Game Warden with 30 years of service.  Bill 

          11   Robinson who now lives in Wimberley, Texas. 

          12                  (Applause.)  

          13                  MR. SANSOM:  We call it P Falls, Pedernales 

          14   Falls State Park right outside of town here.  We recognize 

          15   today Warden Wunderlich, who's worked in the Department 

          16   for 30 years.  He began in the Wildlife Division and 

          17   returned to the Department in 1980 to P Falls.  And he 

          18   continues to be there today, providing services to one of 

          19   the most park hungry population numbers Texas in the 

          20   Austin and Central Texas area.  Harden Wunderlich from 

          21   State Parks with 30 years of service. 

          22                  (Applause.). 

          23                  MR. SANSOM:  I introduced each of you to 

          24   the first class of natural leaders the other night at our 

          25   employee recognition program.  One of the participants in 


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           1   that program this year, in the pilot program, is one of 

           2   our most distinguished senior managers.  John Yarbrough is 

           3   the Regional Director of State Parks in Tyler.  He's 

           4   worked at Parks and Wildlife for 25 years, coming here in 

           5   1976 after completing his Master's program from Steven F. 

           6   Austin.  He started as a Park Ranger at Mustang Island, 

           7   and he's been through a number of different assignments 

           8   including Mission Tejas, Martin Dies and Daingerfield.  He 

           9   is truly one of the better managers I believe anywhere in 

          10   state government and an incredibly valuable colleague at 

          11   Parks and Wildlife.  John Yarbrough, State Parks Regional 

          12   Director from Tyler, 25 years of service. 

          13                  (Applause.) 

          14                  MR. SANSOM:  A jewel in our system is Lake 

          15   Mineral Wells State Park, for those of you who haven't 

          16   been there.  And today we recognize Alice Gayle 

          17   Adams-Hooten, who has more than 20 years of service at 

          18   Parks and Wildlife, all of that at Lake Mineral Wells.  

          19   She started there before it actually opened, and she 

          20   worked in a portable building for about 18 months.  Today, 

          21   it's one of the finest sites in our system thanks to the 

          22   hard work of people like Alice.  Please recognize Alice 

          23   Gail Adams-Hooten, 20 years of service. 

          24                  (Applause.) 

          25                  MR. SANSOM:  Now, I'm going to introduce 


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           1   you to the bird bander.  Kelly Bryan's first exposure to 

           2   Parks and Wildlife was in 1976.  He was in school at Sam 

           3   Houston State University and a summer intern at Huntsville 

           4   State Park.  He stayed in that position until he finished 

           5   his Master's degree, and then he actually worked in the 

           6   Inland Fisheries on aquatic vegetation matters in the 

           7   early '80s.  In 1987, Kelly was named the first manager at 

           8   Kickapoo Cavern State Park, which is one of the most 

           9   significant natural areas in our system.  He managed there 

          10   some of Texas' most important cave resources and the 

          11   largest known population of Black-capped Vireos on public 

          12   land.   

          13             He's been a superintendent of Davis Mountains, 

          14   where he devised a bird banding operation, run primarily 

          15   by volunteers which is not known not only for its 

          16   educational value but has created a nine-year database for 

          17   avian resources represented by 148 species and 21,000 

          18   individual birds.  Please recognize the Natural Resources 

          19   Coordinator for Region 1 from State Parks, Kelly Bryan. 

          20                  (Applause.) 

          21                  MR. SANSOM:  Another colleague for whom I 

          22   have the utmost respect, who I met when she was a 

          23   superintendent at Monument Hill and Kreische Brewery State 

          24   Park.  She was there for 30 years on a site that's 

          25   relatively small and in some cases little known, but one 


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           1   of the most sacred historic sites in Texas.  She 

           2   transferred to Martin Dies State Park in 1994, and she is 

           3   one of our most outstanding superintendents there today.  

           4   With 20 years of service to the State Park System, Ellen 

           5   Buchanan from Martin Dies. 

           6                  (Applause.) 

           7                  MR. SANSOM:  From Mexia, Texas, Tom Fisher 

           8   started as an intern in 1980.  He was in the Comprehensive 

           9   Planning Branch and had received his Master's degree from 

          10   Texas A&M in Recreation Resources Development.  He went to 

          11   work at Old Fort Parker State Park, which is our flagship 

          12   partnership park now managed by the City of Groesbeck.  He 

          13   developed education programs for school groups, displays 

          14   on the site and on the Comanche ways of life particularly 

          15   and the Parker families.   

          16             From 1986 to 1990, he was manager of Mission 

          17   Tejas.  And since December of '91, he has been the manager 

          18   of both Fort Parker State Park and the Confederate Reunion 

          19   Grounds.  Please recognize with 20 years of service, Tom 

          20   Fisher from Mexia, Texas.   

          21                  (Applause.) 

          22                  MR. SANSOM:  Our colleagues are recognized 

          23   not only here in Austin but throughout the United States.  

          24   And one of the reasons for that is that we have a 

          25   tremendous commitment to research and to publication.  


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           1   Those of you have who have served on our boards and been 

           2   around the Department have seen the publication that comes 

           3   out each year on Wildlife research.  It was a program 

           4   begun by the man that I'm about to introduce to you, 

           5   Ronnie George.   

           6             Ron worked at the Department since 1981.  He was 

           7   first involved in the dove program and helped devise the 

           8   three-zone dove hunting system in Texas.  He was involved 

           9   with the acquisition of several units of the Las Palomas 

          10   Wildlife Management Area for white-wings and he helped 

          11   establish the first sandhill crane hunting season in South 

          12   Texas.   

          13             Today he is a Deputy Director of the Wildlife 

          14   Division and he coordinates its research.  Ronnie George 

          15   is a co-author of more than 50 papers on wildlife 

          16   conservation.  He chairs the Migratory Shore and Upland 

          17   Game Bird SubCommittee of the International Association of 

          18   Fish and Wildlife Agencies, and he's a past president of 

          19   the Texas Parks and Wildlife Society.  He was an Air Force 

          20   jet tanker pilot and has just completed a successful 

          21   autobiography of his years in the Air Force, and it is on 

          22   the stands.   

          23             Please recognize Ron George, Deputy Director of 

          24   Wildlife for 20 years of service. 

          25                  (Applause.) 


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           1                  MR. SANSOM:  He is truly a gentleman and a 

           2   scholar. 

           3                  (Applause.) 

           4                  MR. SANSOM:  Bill McDonald from 

           5   Infrastructure, our Senior Landscape Architect; today, the 

           6   only landscape architect in the Department.  He's been 

           7   here since 1981.  He's worked on projects that have ranged 

           8   from the Buffalo grass in front of the employee fitness 

           9   center to multimillion dollar park projects.  He's worked 

          10   on Choke Canyon, Cooper Lake.  He's helped restore CCC 

          11   areas at Caddo Lake, Indian Lodge and Palo Duro, and he 

          12   was a key player in the restoration and monument 

          13   construction of the Texas State Cemetery.   

          14             Please recognize William McDonald from the 

          15   Infrastructure Division with 20 years of service. 

          16                  (Applause.) 

          17                  MR. SANSOM:  Well, he took advantage of the 

          18   rain to water the Buffalo grass.   

          19             I do think that there are some people who have 

          20   not gotten here yet because of the rain, and I suspect 

          21   that Bill is one of them.  I note that Commissioner Watson 

          22   has joined us, and I would like for all of you to join me 

          23   in wishing him a happy birthday. 

          24                  (Applause.) 

          25                  MR. SANSOM:  Falcon Lake State Park.  


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           1   Calvin Snyder started as a Park Ranger 20 years ago at 

           2   Lake Texana.  He's been an Assistant Manager at Galveston 

           3   Island, and he's currently, as I said, the manager of 

           4   Falcon State Park.  He's been there for ten years, and he 

           5   has been a leader in efforts in entrepreneurial behavior 

           6   and fundraising.  In fact, his Legacy Fishing Tournament 

           7   is one of his landmark programs and now emulated 

           8   throughout the state.   

           9             Please recognize, from Falcon State Park, 20 

          10   years of service, Calvin Snyder. 

          11                  (Applause.) 

          12                  MR. SANSOM:  Members, perhaps no event in 

          13   the time that I've had the privilege of being here at 

          14   Parks and Wildlife has been as sobering for us as the 

          15   recent death in the line of duty of Officer Michael 

          16   Pauling.  And one of the wonderful things that 

          17   unfortunately arose from this circumstance but has 

          18   inspired us all is the tremendous outpouring of support 

          19   from all across the United States, particularly including 

          20   organizations known as 100 Clubs.   

          21             In 1953, five Houston men had a basic idea, and 

          22   that was to organize a club to provide financial support 

          23   to the families of police officers killed in the line of 

          24   duty.  They started with 100 people who contributed $100 

          25   each, and the 100 Club was born.  In Houston, their 


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           1   membership has grown to more than 15,000 and it has 

           2   provided over five million dollars to survivors of 103 

           3   different peace officers.  The Mission has expanded to 

           4   include the donation of life protecting equipment to law 

           5   enforcement agencies and educational programs for 

           6   officers.  Altogether, the 100 Club of Houston has spent 

           7   more than 17 million dollars on its programs.   

           8             Today, former Commissioner George Bolin, no 

           9   stranger to this Department, a long-time and continued 

          10   supporter of conservation in Texas, is the 100 Club 

          11   Secretary/Treasurer.  He is here with Mr. Rick Hartley, 

          12   who is Executive Director, and Mr. Howard Moon, who's 

          13   President.  And they have provided this Department with 

          14   over $140,000 worth of equipment, including an air boat, 

          15   which I believe if the rain is not in the way is on 

          16   display just outside the front entrance for public 

          17   viewing.   

          18             So please recognize George Bolin, Mr. Hartley 

          19   and Mr. Howard Moon. 

          20                  (Applause) 

          21                  MR. MOON:  I think it's apropos that we 

          22   would have the air boat today in this weather like this.  

          23   We may have to resume that so we can get back to Houston.   

          24             Mentioning the number of members that we have, 

          25   Al Henry is one of our finest members of the 100 Club.  


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           1   And we certainly welcome all of you Commissioners and 

           2   anyone in the audience that would like to join the 100 

           3   Club.  But certainly we appreciate the job that each of 

           4   you are doing and we hope that we can continue to support 

           5   you in every way. 

           6                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you so much.  

           7                  (Applause.) 

           8                  MR. SANSOM:  Finally, members, we have the 

           9   opportunity to recognize one of our own, also a 

          10   participant in the Natural Leaders Program, one of the 

          11   most promising young managers in Parks and Wildlife, Chris 

          12   True.  Chris was, when I first met him, Assistant Park 

          13   Manager at Cedar Hill.  And while he was there, he was 

          14   contacted by an organization called the Concerned Citizens 

          15   of Dallas, who wanted some help to develop projects for 

          16   innercity children in the Dallas area.  What Chris did in 

          17   the best tradition of team work at Parks and Wildlife was 

          18   he got together with the Wildlife Division, some folks 

          19   from our education program and the State Parks Division 

          20   and developed a project where innercity youth are actually 

          21   creating at Cedar Hill a nature trail for interpretation 

          22   that will also serve as an outdoor classroom.  Chris 

          23   raised the money for the project.  And today these young 

          24   people are working to construct the area while basically 

          25   restoring at the same time a previously disturbed section 


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           1   of native prairie. 

           2             For this work, Chris has received the National 

           3   Association of Interpreters Best Project for the states of 

           4   Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri and Louisiana.  Please 

           5   help me recognize Chris True from the State Parks 

           6   Division. 

           7                  (Applause.) 

           8                  MR. SANSOM:  Finally, Madame Chairman and 

           9   members, it gives me a great deal of pleasure, once again, 

          10   to introduce to you and to the members of our audience, a 

          11   gentleman who is one of the most distinguished 

          12   conservation law enforcement officers in America, who has 

          13   recently retired from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 

          14   as a Senior Game Warden in the State of Texas and today is 

          15   the Chief of Law Enforcement for Texas Parks and Wildlife, 

          16   Mr. Jim Steinbaugh.  Welcome, Jim. 

          17                  (Applause.)  

          18                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The first order of 

          19   business is the approval of agenda which we have before 

          20   us.  Is there a motion for approval? 

          21                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Move. 

          22                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Second. 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?  All 

          24   opposed?  Motion passes.   

          25   AGENDA ITEM NO. 1:  ACTION - ELECTION OF VICE CHAIRMAN 


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           1                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  This brings us to a agenda 

           2   Item No. 1, which is the election of a new Vice Chairman.  

           3   And before we do that, I want to say a few words about our 

           4   outgoing Vice Chairman, Commissioner Carol Dinkins.   

           5             I don't have to tell you all a lot about Carol.  

           6   I think everybody in this room understands the 

           7   contribution she's made not only to our state but also to 

           8   our country in all she has done for conservation for her 

           9   community, for her profession.  She is the immediate past 

          10   president of the Texas Nature Conservancy, she has worked 

          11   in Washington, she was the chairman of the Governor's 

          12   Conservation Task Force, which I think will have a lasting 

          13   influence on decisions we make going forward.  It's 

          14   already -- I notice almost daily now people referring to 

          15   that document.  It was a great accomplishment, terrific 

          16   contribution.  And we -- I think we should all thank Carol 

          17   for what she has done as Vice Chairman and as a 

          18   Commissioner, and I would like a round of applause for a 

          19   great Commissioner, Carol Dinkins. 

          20                  (Applause and standing ovation.) 

          21                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Every two years, the 

          22   Commission elects a new Vice Chairman to serve for two 

          23   years, and so that is the first item on the agenda.  And 

          24   so I need a motion for nomination.  I guess that's right. 

          25                  COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  Madame Chair, thank 


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           1   you for your very kind words and to all of you for the 

           2   applause.  I do appreciate it.  It's an honor to serve on 

           3   the Commission, and it's a particular privilege to serve 

           4   as Vice Chair.  And I am pleased to offer the name of 

           5   Ernest Angelo of Midland as Vice Chair for the Commission.  

           6   And I move his nomination. 

           7                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do I have a second? 

           8                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  I second that. 

           9                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  A second by Commissioner 

          10   Henry.  All in favor?  All opposed?  Congratulations, 

          11   Ernest.  Thank you. 

          12                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Thank you. 

          13                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I will rely on my Vice 

          14   Chairman a lot, and Ernie brings a lot of experience in 

          15   state government and on the Commission.  This is his 

          16   fourth year, going into his fifth year.  And I'll look 

          17   forward to working with you, Ernie.  Thank you very much. 

          18                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Thank you.  I'll do the 

          19   same. 

          20                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The next order of business 

          21   is a briefing.  Ernie Gammage will brief us on the tenth 

          22   anniversary of the Texas Wildlife Expo. 

          23   AGENDA ITEM NO. 2.  BRIEFING - TENTH ANNIVERSARY TEXAS 

          24   WILDLIFE EXPO 

          25             (Whereupon, a briefing was presented to the  
                         Commission, after which the following       

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           1             proceedings were had:) 

           2                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Commissioner 

           3   Henry.  Do we have any further discussion?  I think we 

           4   have some people who have signed up to speak.  Donna Roth 

           5   Kinney.  And then -- 

           6                  MS. KINNEY:  Thank you, Madame Chairman. 

           7                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Just a minute.  And then 

           8   Claire Basham, if could you be ready. 

           9                  MS. KINNEY:  Thank you, Madame Chairman.  

          10   My name is Donna Roth Kinney, and I'm here on the behalf 

          11   of the City of Keller, supporting the Keller nature park.  

          12   The proposed park is an 30-acre nature park including an 

          13   open space dedication, nature trails and nature 

          14   demonstrations among other amenities.  This is very 

          15   important to preserve our open space in a rapidly 

          16   developing community in the area of North Texas.  I would 

          17   like to thank the staff for the favorable recommendation 

          18   of the project, and I appreciate your consideration and 

          19   support of our project.  The City of Keller is excited 

          20   about the opportunities the grant provides to us for the 

          21   open nature park. 

          22                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Donna, you're going to 

          23   have a rare opportunity today to speak again.  I skipped 

          24   over -- this is the first time I've done this, and the 

          25   speaker order was a little bit confusing to me.  You'll be 


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           1   speaking about local grants, I believe. 

           2                  MS. KINNEY:  Yes. 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  So if you don't mind 

           4   sitting down again, we'll call you back. 

           5                  MS. KINNEY:  Thank you for the test run. 

           6                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  You got a test run.  All 

           7   right?  All right.  Nobody had signed up, I don't believe, 

           8   to speak on the issue of Wildlife Expo.  So is there 

           9   further discussion on this item?  If not, do I have a 

          10   motion? 

          11                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  It's not an action 

          12   item. 

          13                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Oh, it's not an action 

          14   item.  My learning curve is kicking in.  I'm sorry.   

          15             We'll move on then to the next agenda item, 

          16   which is Local Parks Grants, and Mr. Hogsett will make the 

          17   presentation.  Thank you all. 

          18   AGENDA ITEM NO. 3:  ACTION - LOCAL PARK GRANTS 

          19                  MR. HOGSETT:  Madame Chairman, good 

          20   morning, members of the Commission.  I'm Tim Hogsett from 

          21   Recreational Grants Branch in the State Parks Division.  

          22   First item that I'm bringing to you today is the Outdoor 

          23   Recreation Grant Program, a part of the Texas Recreation 

          24   Parks Account.  These, of course, are 50 percent matching 

          25   grants to local governments for acquisition of land or 


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           1   construction facilities for outdoor recreation. 

           2             This review consists of 43 applications which 

           3   were received as of our January 31st, 2001 deadline and a 

           4   total request of about $16.1 million dollars in matching 

           5   funds.  We have scored and rank-ordered all the 

           6   applications using the priority system that you have 

           7   adopted, and you can find the priority ranking list AT 

           8   Exhibit A.  And we are going to be recommending approval 

           9   of the top 14 applications for a total of $5,585,945 in 

          10   matching funds.  And the staff recommendation is funding 

          11   for the projects listed in Exhibit A in the amount of 

          12   $5,585,945 is approved, as described, for individual 

          13   projects in Exhibit B. 

          14             I'll be glad to answer any questions you have. 

          15                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any questions 

          16   from the Commission?  Now, Dona Roth Kinney, you can come 

          17   up and speak now.  And you can start from the beginning, 

          18   if you like. 

          19                  MS. KINNEY:  Actually, since I already said 

          20   it one time, I would just like to thank the staff for 

          21   working with us and their support of the project and your 

          22   favorable consideration of the project.  Thank you. 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Claire Basham? 

          24                  MR. BASHAM:  I'm Claire.  It's Chris. 

          25                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Oh.  Oh.  I've got a 


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           1   handout for you.  I'm Chris Basham representing the City 

           2   of Granbury, Texas.  Granbury asked me to come down and 

           3   make another pitch for the project, so I'm doing that for 

           4   them.  If you haven't been to Granbury, you may have seen 

           5   Granbury if you were watching the millennium celebration 

           6   for CNN; you probably saw Granbury there along with Paris 

           7   and Tokyo and a few other small cities around the world.  

           8   Granbury is a very small city with a very big heart and a 

           9   big attitude, and they've got some great plans that 

          10   they're trying to do.   

          11             This park project that is not on the recommended 

          12   list at this time is City Beach Park.  It's been the No. 1 

          13   priority for several years.  It's been packaged and 

          14   repackaged several times trying to meet the criteria 

          15   that's there.  One of the things that works against it is 

          16   it is a small park.  The city, recognizing the need for 

          17   this park and wanting it, bought land, very prime 

          18   property, right on the lake right at the entrance to the 

          19   city.  The value of the property has been estimated now at 

          20   over one million dollars.  They're not asking the State to 

          21   buy it.  They already bought it, but they're trying to 

          22   turn it into a park and looking for the program there.  

          23   The way the points system works -- they don't got the 

          24   credit for that because of the acquisition of the land.  

          25   They did do the labor and virtual activity on it.   


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           1             But is about one million dollars worth of land.    

           2   The value of the City's contribution to this part is about 

           3   1.3 million dollars that they've already contributed to 

           4   the park with the value of the land with the Brazos River 

           5   Authority donation and with the local and private 

           6   donations of (inaudible).   

           7             This is the first phase of a three-phase project 

           8   that they're looking at.  It's about 8 acres that totally 

           9   wraps around the entrance to the city all in lake 

          10   property.  It is the only water-based recreation in the 

          11   area.  And the city also -- you've got a handwritten thing 

          12   at the bottom of your note there.  The City, as of this 

          13   morning, threw in another $25,000 that they're willing to 

          14   contribute to try to make this deal go for the City.   

          15             With that, we appreciate your consideration.  

          16   It's a very big project for the City of Granbury.  We'll 

          17   keep plugging trying to get this project.  The City's 

          18   excited about it.  I've never been involved with a city as 

          19   energetic and contributory as Granbury is.  So thank you 

          20   for your time. 

          21                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Chris.  Arthur 

          22   Jistel.  And Jerry Cummings, could you be ready? 

          23                  MR. JISTEL:  Thank you, Madame Chairman.  

          24   I'm Art Jistel, representing River Place Municipal Utility 

          25   District Directors.  And on behalf of River Place 


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           1   Municipal Utility District Directors and River Place 

           2   homeowners, I would like to express my appreciation and 

           3   thank you to all the Commissioners and to the staff for 

           4   their approval for the funding of the River Place MUD 

           5   Woodlands Park and Nature Preserve here in Austin, Texas.    

           6             I would also like to take this time to thank, 

           7   especially, Barbara Austin from Richardson Verdoorn for 

           8   her help and assistance on the grant application process. 

           9             At this time I would certainly like to invite 

          10   everyone to the River Place Woodlands Park and Nature 

          11   Preserve upon our completion of this project.  Thank you, 

          12   again. 

          13                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Lonnie Flores, could you 

          14   be ready, please? 

          15                  MR. CUMMINGS:  Madame Chairman, 

          16   Commissioners, I'm Jerry Cummings.  I'm the City Manager 

          17   in Childress, excuse me, representing the City of 

          18   Childress.  We had a local committee that assisted putting 

          19   our grant application together.  I've got two of those 

          20   committee members with me this morning.  I would like to 

          21   recognize Lowell Wakefield, who is also a member of our 

          22   City Council, and Larry Johnson, who was on the committee; 

          23   he's the president of one of our local banks.   

          24             We would like to express our appreciation for 

          25   the fact that these monies are available.  Communities 


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           1   such as ours wouldn't have opportunities such as this if 

           2   those state and federal monies weren't there and programs 

           3   weren't in place.  We really appreciate that.   

           4             We would also like to express our appreciation 

           5   to the Parks and Wildlife staff.  The assistance that we 

           6   received from them during the application process has been 

           7   very well received.  We appreciate what they've done.  We 

           8   are especially thankful that they've ranked us No. 4 on 

           9   their list, recommended full funding.  And this morning we 

          10   simply want to ask the Commission to favorably view our 

          11   project and the staff recommendations.  We would be happy 

          12   to answer any questions that you might have.  Thank you. 

          13                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Would Ann 

          14   Ochoa be ready, please. 

          15                  MR. FLORES:  Madame Chairman, good morning, 

          16   members of the Commission.  My name is Lonnie Flores, and 

          17   I'm the major of Donna, Texas, a small community down in 

          18   the Rio Grande Valley.  I'll tell you all what, I'm here 

          19   with two requests.  One of them is I sure would like to 

          20   take some of this rain back with me.  It's awfully dry 

          21   down there.  But since you all don't have control of that, 

          22   we'll stick to the matter at hand.   

          23             Our particular project was not recommended for 

          24   approval, so we're here this morning, myself and City 

          25   Planner Xavier Cervantes, who worked extremely hard on 


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           1   this -- on the application and, the parks master plan.  

           2   I'm actually representing the City of Donna, but I'm also 

           3   representing the school district, because they contributed 

           4   or have pledged to contribute $100,000 to this project.             

           5             Donna, Texas, is the only community in the Rio 

           6   Grande Valley that has a Five A classification in the 

           7   school districts in the Rio Grande Valley that does not 

           8   have a swimming pool.  In talking to the City Commission 

           9   and to one staff, particularly Xavier Cervantes, since our 

          10   project was not recommended for full funding, which was 

          11   $325,000 of application, what I'm here before you to do is 

          12   to ask that you do fund us for $150,000, and that would 

          13   most certainly help us with a swimming pool project 

          14   inclusive of the monies that the school district is going 

          15   to contribute along with our matching part of it.  That 

          16   would help to get our particular park and our children 

          17   swimming in an adequate swimming pool, allowing the school 

          18   district to have a swimming pool whereby they could be 

          19   competitive in that way and keep the children basically 

          20   swimming out of the canals.   

          21             We respectfully submit our application and our 

          22   request, and we thank you for your time. 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you. 

          24                  MS. OCHOA:  My name is Ann Ochoa, and I am 

          25   Major Pro Tem of the City of Lago Vista.  With me today 


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           1   here is two of our young leaders in our city, Lisa Wolfe 

           2   and Dan Flores.  Could you guys stands up, please?  

           3   They're representatives of the new Lago Vista.  We have a 

           4   lot of young folks moving in and providing great 

           5   leadership.  Also, Fred Harless, who is on the City 

           6   Council with me, and he's been on for quite a while, and 

           7   we're very much enjoying the work we're doing there, 

           8   especially now.  We want to say thank you so much.   

           9             This is the third time I've stood here, and this 

          10   is the first time I could say thank you not only for 

          11   considering us but for awarding us the grant.  And we 

          12   certainly appreciate it.   

          13             What I wanted to do - I won't take too much 

          14   time - is just show you how this has played out in our 

          15   headlines of the local newspaper over the last 

          16   two-and-a-half years that we've been working on this.  

          17   Back on June 10th of 1999, "Lago Vista Council moves ahead 

          18   with plans for new swimming pool."  That's when it 

          19   started.   

          20             In January 20th of 2000, we had a bond election 

          21   in the city that had a record turnout and ended up as a 

          22   pool hall approving 700,000 in taxpayer bonds for our part 

          23   of the grant application, which was a watershed election 

          24   in our city.   

          25             And Thursday, August 17th, 2000 -- again, all 


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           1   these, you'll notice, are big headlines.  Unfortunately 

           2   that's the first time that we were unable to achieve our 

           3   objective with the application to this group, "Pool deal 

           4   won't float."  Well, so it goes. 

           5             On the Thursday, September 7th, 2000, right 

           6   after, "Pool bid to be resubmitted."  Thank you very much.  

           7   On -- our next application was for the deadline that was a 

           8   achieved in January 25th, 2001, unfortunately, "Strike two 

           9   on funds for the pool complex."  I was hoping it wasn't 

          10   going to be strike three, you're out.  Well, last week's 

          11   paper came out, headlines - after the deadline, I might 

          12   admit - "500,000 for the Lago park."  This the First City 

          13   park that we will have in Lago Vista, and we are very, 

          14   very grateful.  Thank you. 

          15                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Lisa Birkman. 

          16                  MS. BIRKMAN:  Good morning.  I'm Lisa 

          17   Birkman.  I'm on the Board of Directors of Brushy Creek 

          18   Municipal Utility District, and I just wanted to thank 

          19   Mr. Hogsett and his staff for all their help and thank the 

          20   Commission for their consideration for approval of our 

          21   grant.  Thank you. 

          22                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.  Do we have any 

          23   more comments from the Commission? 

          24                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  I have a 

          25   question. 


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           1                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Okay.  Commissioner 

           2   Montgomery. 

           3                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Tim.  Can I hear 

           4   the staff position on the two cities that came up, Donna 

           5   and Granbury, on their grants and what our policy on last 

           6   minute bids, if you will -- is there a deadline set?  How 

           7   do we deal with them when they're considered? 

           8                  MR. HOGSETT:  Last minute?  I'm sorry. 

           9                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Well, as I get 

          10   it, we're getting two proposals that up the ante, from 

          11   both Granbury and Donna, who have modified their 

          12   originally-submitted proposal.   

          13                  MR. HOGSETT:  We have never -- the 

          14   Commission has, at least in the time I've been here, not 

          15   made a change in terms of partially funding another 

          16   project. 

          17                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  No.  I wasn't 

          18   suggesting anything.  I was just trying to understand 

          19   what's our -- how does this relate to our process? 

          20                  MR. HOGSETT:  I'm not sure that it does 

          21   relate. 

          22                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  These two cities' 

          23   applications that came in are now being modified or are 

          24   these new -- 

          25                  MR. HOGSETT:  No.  These were part of the 


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           1   group that was submitted for the January 31st deadline.  

           2   And they were not considered any differently than any of 

           3   the other applications. 

           4                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  So the changes 

           5   were new changes for the proposal that are coming in? 

           6                  MR. HOGSETT:  In the case of both of them, 

           7   they were resubmissions, and they had been in a previous 

           8   review.  And they had the opportunity after they were not 

           9   funded the first time to come in and sit down with us, and 

          10   in both cases I think they fairly dramatically improved 

          11   their scores over the previous submission.  And they will 

          12   have the opportunity to do that again, if they desire. 

          13                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Right.  What's 

          14   our next approval cycle?   

          15                  MR. HOGSETT:  Well, what we do with people 

          16   that are not recommended for funding, we give them a month 

          17   from this -- from today to do their resubmission, and they 

          18   would be considered in the group that we will bring back 

          19   to you in January, at the January meeting. 

          20                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  I just wanted to 

          21   make sure that we have a clear understanding of what our 

          22   process was. 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Commissioner Angelo? 

          24                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  I would -- I want to 

          25   commend Mr. Hogsett and his staff for the manner in which 


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           1   they review these projects.  I hope that all of you that 

           2   are making applications, both those that have been 

           3   approved and those that haven't quite made it, would 

           4   recognize the difficulty that's presented to the staff and 

           5   the Department and the Commission, considering the fact 

           6   that the applications for grants exceeded by some 

           7   300 percent the amount of funds that are available.  And 

           8   the -- the process that's been developed is one of, I 

           9   think, scrupulous integrity and a method that utilizes a 

          10   scoring technique that's totally fair to all the 

          11   applicants.  And it's the only way that I think this could 

          12   be handled and not present impossible situations for the 

          13   Commission and for those of you that are making the 

          14   applications.  So I commend everybody on the staff and 

          15   also those of you that made applications, because I know a 

          16   great deal of work goes into it.  It's not an easy 

          17   process.  The staff is always available to assist you in 

          18   and to offer advise and counsel as you make those 

          19   applications.  And for those of you that are disappointed 

          20   today, I hope that you will resubmit.   

          21             I noticed that of the ones that were approved by 

          22   the staff or recommended by the staff, there's eight out 

          23   of the 14 are resubmittals.  So don't give up just because 

          24   you didn't make it.  It's worth the effort.  Again, I 

          25   thank Mr. Hogsett and his staff for the manner in which 


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           1   they conduct this process. 

           2                  MR. HOGSETT:  Thank you. 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Commissioner 

           4   Angelo.  Do we have any further discussion?  Commissioner 

           5   Fitzsimons? 

           6                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Thank you, Madame 

           7   Chairman.  I would like to reiterate what Vice Chair 

           8   Angelo said.  I know where Donna, Texas is.  It's a long 

           9   drive from here to Donna.  Stay with it.  The process that 

          10   was described, I've got to tell you, is extremely 

          11   objective.  The rules are fair.  Stay with it.  As 

          12   commissioner Angelo said, eight out of 14 were 

          13   resubmissions.   

          14             We all wish every one of these local park grants 

          15   could be -- could be funded.  I lived for a long time in a 

          16   very small, poor community down on the border, and those 

          17   are real needs.  But just keep coming, and we'll be here 

          18   next year.  Thank you. 

          19                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you, Commissioner 

          20   Fitzsimons.  Do we have any further discussion?  Do I have 

          21   a motion? 

          22                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Move for approval. 

          23                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Madame Chairman, I 

          24   would move that we accept recommendation from staff. 

          25                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We have a motion.  Do we 


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           1   have a second? 

           2                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Second. 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Commissioner Angelo 

           4   seconds.  All in favor?  Opposed?  Motion passes. 

           5             "Funding for projects listed in Exhibit A in the 

           6              amount of $5,585,945,000 is approved, as  

           7              described for individual projects in  

           8              Exhibit B." 

           9                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next item to the agenda is 

          10   National Recreational Trail Grants -- no, no.  Sorry.  

          11   Small Community Grants.  Tim Hogsett, you're up again. 

          12   AGENDA ITEM 4.  ACTION - SMALL COMMUNITY GRANTS 

          13                  MR. HOGSETT:  Thank you, Madame Chairman, 

          14   Commissioners.  For the record, I'm Tim Hogsett, Director 

          15   of Recreational Grants in the State Parks Division.  This 

          16   is a first award of a pilot program that you authorized 

          17   the staff to create in January.  It's for small 

          18   communities and for small grant projects, the criteria 

          19   being cities or other government entities of a population 

          20   of 50,000 or less and a maximum grant of 500,000 -- I'm 

          21   sorry, of $50,000.   

          22             This grew out of some public hearings that we 

          23   had last year about the larger grant program.  And one of 

          24   the things that we heard a lot as we did those public 

          25   hearings was the smaller communities that were just 


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           1   needing one or two facilities felt that they could not be 

           2   competitive in the larger program.  As a result of that, 

           3   we designed this pilot to try to meet that -- what seemed 

           4   to be an unmet need.  We tried to make it as simple as 

           5   possible.  We did set aside -- you gave us the permission 

           6   to set aside the equivalent of one of the large grants; in 

           7   other words, set aside $500,000 for this program, and to 

           8   take applications from around the state. 

           9             It was very popular.  We received 64 

          10   applications for that $500,000.  They had a short period 

          11   of time in which to make the applications, actually, from 

          12   early February until May the 15th.  And during that time, 

          13   those 64 applications requesting 2.2 million dollars were 

          14   received.  We then used the scoring system that is very 

          15   similar to the larger scoring system process to -- that we 

          16   had developed to evaluate and rank order those projects. 

          17             We are recommending, then, approval for the top 

          18   12 projects.  And the staff recommendation is funding for 

          19   the projects listed in Exhibit A in the amount of $541,660  

          20   is approved as described for individual projects in 

          21   Exhibit B.  I would be glad to answer any questions that 

          22   you have. 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I believe we have someone 

          24   that is going to speak here, but before we call that 

          25   person up, I want to recognize someone who's in the 


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           1   audience, former Commissioner Bob Armstrong. 

           2                  (Applause.)  

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I hear Edmund Kuempel is 

           4   around here somewhere, but I don't see him in here.  If 

           5   he's here, we say hi.   

           6             Do we any questions of Mr. Hogsett?  We have 

           7   someone here.  Bob Duke would like to speak. 

           8                  MR. DUKE:  Madame Chairman, members of the 

           9   Commission, I'm here representing the City of Texas City, 

          10   which was one of the communities that put in a grant for 

          11   the Small Communities Application and are being 

          12   recommended by the staff.  And they ask that I come and 

          13   speak on their behalf and just thank you for this -- this 

          14   type of grant program.  And they're very excited about 

          15   what they're going to be able to do in an existing park 

          16   that already was a part of your -- your earlier -- your 

          17   other grant programs, but it's in need of some -- some 

          18   improvement.  So they're saying thank you.   

          19                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any discussion? 

          20                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Move approval. 

          21                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have a second? 

          22                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Second. 

          23                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We have a motion and a 

          24   second.  All in favor?  All opposed?  Hearing none, the 

          25   motion carries. 


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           1             "Funding for projects listed in Exhibit A in the 

           2             amount of $541,550 is approved, as described 

           3             for individual projects in Exhibit B." 

           4   AGENDA ITEM NO. 5:  ACTION - NATIONAL RECREATIONAL TRAIL 

           5   GRANTS 

           6                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next order is an action 

           7   item National Recreational Trail Grants, 

           8   Andy Goldbloom. 

           9                  MR. GOLDBLOOM:  Madame Chairman, 

          10   Commissioners, my name is Andy Goldbloom, and I manage the 

          11   National Recreational Trails program in the State Parks 

          12   Division.   

          13             The National Recreational Trails fund is a past 

          14   and federally-funded grant program generated by the 

          15   federal gasoline tax generated by offroad recreational 

          16   motorized vehicles like ATVs and Jeeps and, up north, snow 

          17   mobiles.   

          18             The fund is funded at 50 million dollars 

          19   nationwide.  Texas' share of that fund is 2.4 million 

          20   dollars.  It's an 80 percent funding assistance program 

          21   for the new construction or renovation of existing trails.               

          22             This year we received 66 project proposals 

          23   requesting 6.2 million dollars in funds.  As a requirement 

          24   of the Act, we have a State Trails Advisory Board that 

          25   helps guide the program, and they also review the 


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           1   applications and make the recommendation for funding. 

           2             The primary things that they look at are the 

           3   quality of projects, the cost effectiveness of the 

           4   project, opportunity impact, and I'll have to add it to 

           5   the slides for next year based on your comments from 

           6   yesterday, they also take into account geographic 

           7   distribution of the funds and past funding.   

           8             Staff's recommendation in the motion before you 

           9   is funding for 35 projects recommended in Exhibit A in the 

          10   amount of $2,670,556. 

          11                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any questions?  

          12   We have one person, Bob Duke, signed up to speak.  Is this 

          13   you, again? 

          14                  MR. DUKE:  Yes, ma'am. 

          15                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  OKAY. 

          16                  MR. DUKE:  I'm a consultant, and so I end 

          17   up working for various folks.   

          18             But this is a project that Sienna Plantation   

          19   Municipal Utility District submitted twice, so we're a 

          20   second-time applicant.  And this will provide about a mile 

          21   of trail along the levee in Sienna Plantation.  And we're 

          22   just here to thank you for the grant and encourage you to 

          23   continue to support this program.  Thank you. 

          24                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Thank you.   

          25             Do we have any.  Questions?  Comments?  Do I 


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           1   have a motion? 

           2                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Move approval. 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Second? 

           4                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second. 

           5                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We have a motion from 

           6   Mr. Avila and a second from -- was it -- okay, Mr. Ramos.  

           7   All in favor?  Any opposed?  Hearing none, motion carries.   

           8             "Funding for 35 projects recommended in  

           9             Exhibit A in the amount of $2,670,556 is 

          10             approved." 

          11   AGENDA ITEM NO. 6:  ACTION - TARGET RANGE PROGRAM  

          12                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Next is Agenda Item No. 6, 

          13   Steve Hall. 

          14                  MR. HALL:  Madame Chairman, members of the 

          15   Commission, my name is Steve Hall, Education and Outreach 

          16   Director responsible for the Hunter Education and Target 

          17   Range Programs.   

          18             This morning we have three new rank projects.  

          19   The criteria for those projects, we used the target range 

          20   plans, the plan which takes into account population, 

          21   hunter education, geographic distribution and hunter 

          22   opportunity.  Target range grant applicants provide 

          23   25 percent of the total project costs.  75 percent are 

          24   federal funds from the Federal Aid and Wildlife 

          25   Restoration Account.  These are also budgeted and passed 


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           1   through upon receipt of eligible billing statements.   

           2             The projects are located in Dallas, Harris and 

           3   Erath Counties.  The combined total cost of the project 

           4   is -- approximates $150,000.  The first project in Dallas 

           5   County is the Grand Prairie Sportmans Club.  They'll be 

           6   constructing the New Hunters Education Building.  The 

           7   total cost of this is $70,000.   

           8             The second is American Shooting Centers at the 

           9   George Bush Park, and they'll be constructing a hunter 

          10   education shooting area.  The cost of that project is 

          11   $15,000.   

          12             And final project is at TAC PRO shooting range.  

          13   This is north of Stephenville.  They'll be asking for 

          14   funds to upgrade the road, the parking, the drainage and 

          15   the rain facilities.  Total cost of that project is 

          16   $65,000.   

          17             And the staff recommends that funding for the 

          18   projects listed in Exhibits B, C and D in the amount of 

          19   $150,000 is approved. 

          20                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there any questions or 

          21   comments from the Commission?  No one has signed up to 

          22   speak on this, so if there is no further discussion, could 

          23   I have a motion. 

          24                  COMMISSIONER WATSON:  So moved. 

          25                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Second? 


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           1                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Second. 

           2                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Motion and a second.  All 

           3   in favor?  All opposed?  Hearing none, motion carries.  

           4   Thank you, Steve. 

           5             "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission  

           6             authorizes the Executive Director to execute 

           7             contracts funding the projects at Exhibit B and  

           8             C pending availability of federal funds." 

           9   AGENDA ITEM NO. 7:  BRIEFING - TEXAS TECH STUDY. 

          10                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  This brings us to Agenda 

          11   Item No. 7. 

          12                  MR. SANSOM:  Madame Chairman, if I might, I 

          13   have just been informed that Dr. Schmidly, who is the 

          14   president of Texas Tech, has just landed and will be here 

          15   in a few minutes.  So if we could defer this item, I would 

          16   appreciate it. 

          17                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  So should we move on, 

          18   then, to No. 8? 

          19                  MR. SANSOM:  Yes, ma'am. 

          20   AGENDA ITEM NO. 8:  ACTION - FY02 OPERATING AND CAPITAL 

          21   BUDGET AND TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE INVESTMENT POLICY 

          22                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  That brings us to No. 8, 

          23   Suzy Whittenton, Operating Capital Budget and Texas Parks 

          24   and Wildlife Investment Policy. 

          25                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Thanks, Madame Chairman, 


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           1   Commissioners, I'm Suzy Whittenton, Chief Financial 

           2   Officer.  Today I'm going to real quickly go through the 

           3   recommended FY02 budget, since we spent a lot of time on 

           4   it yesterday.   

           5             We expect to have approximately 263 million 

           6   dollars available in cash in FY02.  In most cases, our 

           7   appropriation authority exceeds our cash available, so 

           8   we'll be focusing or more concerned with cash this year 

           9   than -- in FY02 than we were this current year.   

          10             Now, some of these funds have restricted uses, 

          11   and the budget allocation fully takes that into account.  

          12   The highlights of the recommended budget are that we 

          13   started with a 97 percent base level of the operating 

          14   budget that we had in '01 which translates into a 

          15   3 percent cut across the board.  We additionally factored 

          16   in a 2 percent salary lapse.  This is a forced salary 

          17   savings achieved through delayed hiring and leaving 

          18   positions vacant.  We are recommending the continuation of 

          19   a three million dollar small maintenance and repair budget 

          20   for parks.  There are no major capital projects included, 

          21   and there are no new bonds funds included.   

          22             These fixed cost increases have contributed to 

          23   the budget challenges that we've had this year.  The much 

          24   needed employee pay raises were approved by the 

          25   legislature with no new funding.  There are also other 


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           1   increased employee benefit costs and increased health 

           2   insurance costs as well as new cost recovery fees for 

           3   statewide services.  This is a nine million dollar impact 

           4   on the budget.  Also, over the last year or so, we've 

           5   experienced some, as everybody has, increased electric 

           6   costs, gas and fuel costs.  We also have new travel 

           7   reimbursement rates in place for the coming fiscal year.        

           8             The total requested budget from all divisions 

           9   total 212 million, and the total operating budget 

          10   recommended is just under 198 million, which is about a 15 

          11   million dollar difference.  New items included in the 

          12   operating budget that were placed -- other base level 

          13   expenses include increased software and hardware 

          14   maintenance costs of just under 200,000.  Parks and 

          15   Wildlife Magazine, increases in their postage and 

          16   printing, paper costs; computer equipment for Game Wardens 

          17   in the field and then the Sunset requirement that we do an 

          18   inventory of State lands, set aside some budget for that.   

          19             As you know, this budget has been very 

          20   difficult, and in order to squeeze the numbers, we're 

          21   recommending that we will be delaying hiring, delaying 

          22   vehicle and boating equipment.  We have some -- we've cut 

          23   some vacant positions.  We're recommending postponing the 

          24   wide area network expansion and, most importantly, we're 

          25   going to be deferring some capital projects. 


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           1             The capital budget's very slim this year.  Out 

           2   of the requested 19 million dollars, we're only able to 

           3   recommend the five million dollar budget, most of which 

           4   will go toward the small maintenance and repairs for state 

           5   parks.  There are nearly 42 million of available grant 

           6   funds.  These are federal funds and local park funds that 

           7   can't be used for other purposes.  Total recommended 

           8   budget is just under 245 million.  This slide shows the 

           9   differences between available cash and recommended budget 

          10   by a major funding source.  You can see that the cash 

          11   balances that we once had are not there anymore.  We're 

          12   not leaving a lot on the table by the end of the year.   

          13             Total FTEs included for fiscal '02 include the 

          14   81 new positions that the legislature approved for state 

          15   parks and for the World Birding Center.  We have a new cap 

          16   of 3,035 and we're overbudgeting by two-and-a-half percent 

          17   roughly to 3,117.  With the delayed hiring tactics, we're 

          18   quite certain we won't exceed the cap.   

          19             Also, on the stamp allocation, the allocation of 

          20   Super Combo revenue to the dedicated stamp funds, we're 

          21   proposing to conduct surveys of Super Combo holders over 

          22   two years in order to have and develop a fair methodology.  

          23   And in the meantime, we would propose holding the stamp 

          24   funds harmless as we have in the past at the same levels 

          25   that we currently have those funds at.   


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           1             I'm also asking your approval on the budget 

           2   policy, which will require that budget adjustments in 

           3   excess of $100,000 excluding federal grants, would require 

           4   the notification of the Chair of the Commission and the 

           5   Chair of the Finance Committee and budget adjustments 

           6   excluding federal grants which exceed 150,000 would 

           7   require signatures and prior approval of both the Chairman 

           8   of the Commission and the Chairman of the Finance 

           9   Committee. 

          10                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  What was our 

          11   policy before? 

          12                  MS. WHITTENTON:  It was exactly the same, 

          13   except that even federal grants required the notification 

          14   or the prior approval. 

          15                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  So what are we 

          16   changing? 

          17                  MS. WHITTENTON:  What we're changing is 

          18   that if a federal grant comes in -- all federal grants are 

          19   specific in purpose, that the staff could go ahead and 

          20   allocate those funds, go ahead and budget those funds 

          21   without asking approval from the Commission or from two 

          22   the Chairmen. 

          23                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Suzy, would you 

          24   elaborate on the rationale for that again?  Explain what 

          25   you mean by the fact that they're allocated. 


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           1                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Well, federal grants come 

           2   in very specific in nature in what they can be used for.  

           3   And in the past, it's just kind of been a formality in 

           4   getting the signatures.  And we won't -- in most cases, 

           5   don't have any discretion as to what those funds could be 

           6   used for.  If we agree to accept the federal funds, they 

           7   have to be used on the -- whatever the program states that 

           8   they are to be used on.  So they wouldn't add to general 

           9   operating budget items or any new capital projects unless 

          10   they were -- that's what the formal grant had specifically 

          11   asked for. 

          12                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Have we ever had 

          13   occasion where we would not be interested in accepting 

          14   federal funds? 

          15                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Not that I'm aware of. 

          16                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Excuse me.  Has it 

          17   been your experience that all of these grants are 

          18   specific?  I mean, you don't generally just get a broad 

          19   discretionary type grant? 

          20                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Right. 

          21                  MR. SANSOM:  No. 

          22                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  That's great. 

          23                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  I've got a 

          24   question on the budget policy, because it's the first time 

          25   I've read it.  Is this a pre-existing budget policy or is 


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           1   this a new submission?   

           2                  MS. WHITTENTON:  It's a pre-existing policy 

           3   with the only change being the insertion of the words 

           4   excluding federal grants on those approval pieces. 

           5                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Who has the 

           6   authority to settle a lawsuit here? 

           7                  MS. WHITTENTON:  To settle a lawsuit? 

           8                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Right. 

           9                  MS. WHITTENTON:  I believe the staff has 

          10   authority to do that. 

          11                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  And that's the 

          12   way it's always been? 

          13                  MR. SANSOM:  But it would -- that would be 

          14   limited by the budget authority for expenditures, you 

          15   know, over a certain amount. 

          16                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Well, that's what 

          17   I was trying to understand this policy.  When it says, 

          18   "Adjust the budget to cover the costs," does that apply to 

          19   the director --  

          20                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Well, if we had a -- had 

          21   to make a budget adjustment to move funds around to cover 

          22   a large loss -- 

          23                  MR. SANSOM:  Then the policy would kick in.  

          24   But we settle lawsuits every -- every week. 

          25                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Yeah. 


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           1                  MR. SANSOM:  But, generally, you do not 

           2   hear about them unless they're above that trigger 

           3   mechanism to require budget changes. 

           4                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  What's that 

           5   dollar amount? 

           6                  MS. WHITTENTON:  There are some settlements 

           7   that require legislative notification.  I believe if 

           8   they're over $250,000, they require -- 

           9                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  And then, No. 9 - 

          10   sorry to slow you down, but I want to make sure I 

          11   understand it - "Authorized classification changes any 

          12   time during a budgetary year providing changes that are 

          13   thoroughly justified and funds available," does that -- 

          14   I'm trying to understand where policy stops and management 

          15   starts in that definition.  It seems a little vague.  

          16   Classification of what? 

          17                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Yes.  Moving funds between 

          18   operating and capital or between equipment and salary 

          19   classifications of budget type.  We actually budget down 

          20   to that level. 

          21                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  And No. 5, 

          22   "Adjust the budget for appropriated revenues," I know 

          23   we've not budgeted fully what we've been appropriated.  

          24   Are there any circumstances where the gaps are such that 

          25   it might be a policy issue that ought to come before the 


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           1   Commission that you all can think of in the coming year? 

           2                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Well, certainly if it 

           3   exceeded 100 or 150,000. 

           4                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  So that's going 

           5   to catch everything either way? 

           6                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Uh-huh. 

           7                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Fine.  Okay.  

           8   Thanks. 

           9                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there any more 

          10   questions?  No one is signed up to speak on this. 

          11                  MR. SANSOM:  Madame Chairman, if I might at 

          12   this point in time, I would just like to add to 

          13   Ms. Whittenton's presentation by saying that if there was 

          14   ever a time that demonstrated the maturity and the 

          15   seasoned and skillful nature of the Division Directors of 

          16   this Department, it is in the compilation of this budget.  

          17   This has not been an easy process.  You all have 

          18   admonished us to make sure that we were able to make -- 

          19   meet the bottom line while not, you know, curtailing 

          20   current services.  And these men and women have done that.  

          21   And I want you to know that, you know, I believe they're 

          22   as good a management team as there is in state government.  

          23   And this particular exercise shows that. 

          24                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Madame Chairman, as I 

          25   mentioned yesterday as Finance Committee Chairman and 


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           1   someone who's been involved in depth with Suzy and Andy 

           2   and the staff in working on this, I think they certainly 

           3   do deserve the compliments that Andy has expressed, as 

           4   does he.   

           5             But, also, I want to say that the Commission has 

           6   been involved to a great extent this year, especially.  

           7   And, again, the Vice Chairman of the Finance Committee, 

           8   Phil Montgomery, has put in endless amount of hours in 

           9   working on this.  So I, too, appreciate the work of the 

          10   staff and all the department heads from top to bottom and 

          11   the work that's been done on this.  And thank you. 

          12                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Thank you. 

          13                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Madame Chairman? 

          14                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Go ahead, Donato Ramos. 

          15                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Yes, ma'am.  Briefly, 

          16   I want to echo what Andy said.  I'm the newest member of 

          17   the Commission.  I continue to be impressed with the 

          18   professionalism and the extreme competency of our staff.  

          19   And, again, I congratulate you all, straight across.  

          20   Thank you. 

          21                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  I was going to wait until 

          22   after we moved to approve, but I also want to add here my 

          23   observations.  I think in the two years that I've been on 

          24   the Commission, this exercise has been as fine an example 

          25   of Commission and staff working together to meet a 


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           1   challenge successfully.  And I know how hard everybody has 

           2   worked, and my hat is off to my fellow Commissioners that 

           3   devoted so much time to this effort and to the staff for 

           4   the countless hours that you all put into this.  And I say 

           5   this with tremendous appreciation. 

           6                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Thank you. 

           7                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  May I add just a 

           8   couple of comments?  I won't repeat what everyone's said 

           9   or complete what I said yesterday other than to say thanks 

          10   again to the management team, Andy and Suzy and department 

          11   heads for multiple iterations and, I think, a very mature 

          12   and objective approach to dealing with scrutiny of 

          13   priorities and a whole different set of exercises.   

          14             I said it yesterday and I think it's important 

          15   for those of you in the audience that are paying attention 

          16   to this:  What we are doing in this budget is deferring 

          17   capital spending, a number of discretionary initiatives 

          18   and living with a little less at the operating level than 

          19   we had last year.  And it does really mean that we're 

          20   going to have to take a variety of fee increases very 

          21   seriously if we intend to keep our service package 

          22   together and avoid the kind of a ratcheting down of the 

          23   service offerings department due to continued cost 

          24   increases that will occur in the future.   

          25             So that no one misses that point, we will want 


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           1   your involvement in the public hearing process, and we 

           2   will want your support in explaining the offerings to the 

           3   Department and the cost benefits trade-offs of how we 

           4   treat our revenue. 

           5             The other element that's not there that I think 

           6   we all need to be prepared to explain to the legislature 

           7   is that we are not engaging in the historic practice of 

           8   underbudgeting and ending up with surpluses.  We have a 

           9   budget that really needs to land right where it's 

          10   positioned unless we prime the pump through the fee 

          11   increases early next year.   

          12             And I will repeat again my offering to volunteer 

          13   to be at the legislative committees.  I think the practice 

          14   we want to defend is conservative budgeting and surpluses 

          15   time to meet seasonal fluctuations of revenue that we're 

          16   going to have year-in, year-out.  I don't want to have to 

          17   defend shutting down operations because we budgeted too 

          18   tightly.  So, management team, you know, I think the right 

          19   practice is to do that.  We're going to have to catch up 

          20   with ourselves, do some increases early in the year.  And 

          21   we're all going to be able to explain that to the public 

          22   and the legislature that we're in a business that has 

          23   seasonal ailments in its revenue stream and a fixed cost 

          24   element to its expenses, and we've got to budget 

          25   intelligently, frugally and responsibly with that.  So I 


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           1   think that's -- those are a couple important principles 

           2   going forward to next year. 

           3                  MR. SANSOM:  And we appreciate your help, 

           4   sir. 

           5                  MS. WHITTENTON:  Also, before you take a 

           6   motion, we also need to get approval on the investment 

           7   policy, which you're required to review annually.  It just 

           8   requires that all funds be deposited in the Treasury and 

           9   allows for any existing stock to be sold and then the 

          10   proceeds be deposited to the Treasury, if deemed 

          11   appropriate.   

          12             And that's all I have.  The staff's 

          13   recommendation is for approval of the recommended budget, 

          14   the budget policy and the investment policy. 

          15                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there -- 

          16                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Move approval. 

          17                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Second. 

          18                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Second by Commissioner 

          19   Montgomery.  All in favor, please say aye.  Any opposed?  

          20   Hearing none, motion carries. 

          21             "The Executive Director is authorized to expend 

          22             funds to operate the Parks and Wildlife  

          23             Department in accordance with the Proposed FY  

          24             2002 Operating Budget (Exhibit A), the Proposed  

          25             FY 2002 Capital Program (Exhibit B), and the  


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           1             Proposed FY 2002 Grant Budget (Exhibit C)." 

           2                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Is -- are we ready for 

           3   No. 7? 

           4                  MR. SANSOM:  He's here, but I think I would 

           5   recommend moving one more item. 

           6   AGENDA ITEM NO. 9:  BRIEFING - NUECES RIVERBED USE 

           7                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  No. 9, then, is a briefing 

           8   by Dr. Larry McKinney.   

           9             (Whereupon, a briefing was presented to the  
                         Commission, after which the following       
          10             proceedings were had:) 

          11   AGENDA ITEM NO. 7: BRIEFING - TEXAS TECH STUDY. 

          12                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We are going, then, back 

          13   to Item No. 7, Dr. David Schmidly will brief us on the 

          14   Texas Tech study.   

          15             (Whereupon, a briefing was presented to the  
                         Commission, after which the following       
          16             proceedings were had:) 

          17   AGENDA ITEM NO. 10:  ACTION - DEER MANAGEMENT PROCLAMATION 

          18                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  The next item on the 

          19   agenda is Item No. 10, the Deer Management Permit Project.  

          20   Jerry Cooke. 

          21                  MR. COOKE:  Madame Chairman and members, my 

          22   name is Jerry Cooke.  I'm Game Branch Chief for the 

          23   Wildlife Division.  I'll be presenting you the proposed 

          24   changes to the Deer Management Permit Project.  We 

          25   discussed this in relative detail yesterday, and I'll be a 


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           1   little more brief today, unless you have more questions on 

           2   the issues. 

           3             Basically, we have three items that we propose 

           4   to change.  One is to place the deer management permit on 

           5   an annual cycle.  The permit would be valid from September 

           6   the 1st or the date of purchase, whichever is latest in 

           7   the year, through the following August 31st.  It would 

           8   prohibit the release of deer from a brood facility on a 

           9   deer management permit before April the 1st.  This would 

          10   take the deer completely out of any possibility of being 

          11   included in a Triple T permit operation.  And also, 

          12   finally, to allow all of our biologists and technicians 

          13   who are assigned to write and approve wildlife management 

          14   plans to be in a position to approve this permit.  And 

          15   this was primarily so that all of these permits could be 

          16   included in a single permit application process.   

          17             The recommendation would be that Texas Parks and 

          18   Wildlife Commission adopts amendments to 31 TAC 65.132 and 

          19   65.136 concerning the deer management project with charges 

          20   to the proposed text as published in the July 27, 2001, 

          21   issue of the Texas Register.  If you have any questions, I 

          22   would be happy to entertain them. 

          23                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Are there any questions 

          24   or comments?  Do we have anyone -- I don't have the slips 

          25   in front of me.  Do we have anyone in the audience who 


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           1   wants to speak on this?  There being none -- being -- 

           2   Mr. Gilleland, did you sign up to speak on this issue? 

           3                  MR. GILLELAND:  Yes, sir, I did. 

           4                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  If you would please 

           5   come to the microphone.  I don't have the slips in front 

           6   of me, so I wasn't aware of that. 

           7                  MR. GILLELAND:  My name is Ellis Gilleland.  

           8   I'm a private citizen.  I'm speaking for Texas Animals, 

           9   which is an animal rights organization on the Internet.  

          10   My -- my comments here today on the proposed changes on 

          11   what you have are based on what appeared in the Texas 

          12   Register, and what appears in the Texas Register is that 

          13   you want to push the decision-making process down to a 

          14   lower level to allow more Department employees to approve 

          15   deer management plans.  I've marked that in yellow.  And 

          16   then on the other side, I've marked with -- "The plan's 

          17   management plan be approved by Wildlife Division 

          18   technician or biologist." 

          19             My recommendation is to leave it with the 

          20   biologists.  In fact, they even should be even higher.  

          21   And the thing I'm concerned about is that you're 

          22   converting -- the gist of this whole 31 TAC 65.132 is 

          23   converting public property into private property.  And so 

          24   this decision, in my opinion, should be a management 

          25   decision above the biologist level.  But the biologist 


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           1   level, to me, would be the bottom mark of a person that 

           2   has some type of managerial training or skill. 

           3             A technician, to me, does not seem to be the 

           4   appropriate level to push decisions for converting public 

           5   property into private property. 

           6             The second comment I have is "will and may".  

           7   The dear -- the management plan will be issued following 

           8   the approval.  I recommend that you keep the "may," "may 

           9   be issued."  The way you have it written now is they do 

          10   not have to pay the fee.  If you look above -- if you go 

          11   by that wording, you lawyers will appreciate the fact that 

          12   "will be issued" -- the man will be issued the plan even 

          13   if he hasn't paid the fee. 

          14             The last comment I have to make has to do with 

          15   the release of the deer.  I think this is just pure bull, 

          16   hogwash, baloney, whatever you want to call it, because 

          17   this 100 yards breach in the fence containment area in 60 

          18   consecutive days open, all of this is being done behind 

          19   the high fence anyway.  This whole thing is being done 

          20   behind high fence.  It's like -- it's like taking a 

          21   Diamond K 5 or 10,000 acres and putting a high fence and 

          22   doing all the mechanical things. 

          23                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you very much, 

          24   Mr. Gilleland.  Thank you very much. 

          25                  MR. GILLELAND:  So it's just superfluous to 


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           1   have this. 

           2                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any comment 

           3   from staff?  Are there any comments from the Commission?  

           4   If there are no more comments, is there a motion on this 

           5   item moving for approval? 

           6                  COMMISSIONER WATSON:  So moved. 

           7                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second. 

           8                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are the any additional 

           9   comments?  Any further comments?  All in favor, say aye.  

          10   All opposed, say no.  Hearing none, motion carries. 

          11             "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts 

          12             amendment to 31 TAC 65.132 and 65.136 (located 

          13             at Exhibit A) concerning the Deer Management 

          14             Proclamation, with changes to the proposed text 

          15             as published in the July 27, 2001, issue of the 

          16             "Texas Register" (26 TexReg 5608)." 

          17   AGENDA ITEM NO. 11:  ACTION - 2001-2002 MIGRATORY GAME 

          18   BIRD PROCLAMATION - LATE SEASON PROVISIONS 

          19                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  The next agenda item is 

          20   Action No. 11, Vernon Bevill, Migratory Game Bird Project, 

          21   late season. 

          22                  MR. BEVILL:  Madame Chairman, members of 

          23   the Commission, I am Vernon Bevill, Game Bird Program 

          24   Director.  Today we're here to talk about the -- what we 

          25   call late season regulations for migratory game bird 


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           1   seasons for the 2001-2002, and I want to primarily focus 

           2   on the changes that we would be proposing.   

           3              For the western goose zone, we've had our 

           4   operational season there very successful and we're not 

           5   proposing any changes other than the shift of days with 

           6   regard to the calendar. 

           7             The same is true for the eastern goose zone.  No 

           8   limit changes, no number of day changes, but just shift 

           9   with regard to the calendar.   

          10             We do deal with the conservation orders for 

          11   light geese and the conservation order for light geese in 

          12   the western goose zone would be implemented on 

          13   February 11th and run through the 31st of March.  In the 

          14   eastern goose zone we are closing down some of the goose 

          15   seasons a little early to accommodate the need to 

          16   implement those regulations for the light goose special 

          17   opportunity there.  And that season would open the day 

          18   after the water fowl season closes on the 21st of January 

          19   with a close at the 31st of March. 

          20             For sandhill crane, we are proposing an 

          21   expansion of the Zone C boundary and a reduction in the 

          22   bag limit in Zone C from three to two.  We're also 

          23   proposing an early closure of a small segment in the 

          24   northeast corner of Zone B to accommodate the need -- the 

          25   needs associated with the light goose conservation orders 


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           1   requiring that sandhill crane not be available to hunt 

           2   during that period. 

           3             The rest of Zone B is in the western goose zone, 

           4   which doesn't open until after the sandhill crane season 

           5   closes. 

           6                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Are we still getting 

           7   a -- I forget what the process is anymore to have a permit 

           8   anymore? 

           9                  MR. BEVILL:  Yes, we do have to have a 

          10   permit. 

          11                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  What kind of records do 

          12   we have, numbers up and down or what feeling about how 

          13   people actually hunt? 

          14                  MR. BEVILL:  Commissioner, I don't know the 

          15   most recent information.  I know when we first went to POS 

          16   it sort of blew our database out of proportion, and that's 

          17   sort of coming back down a little ever since.  But it's 

          18   still considerably higher than when we were issuing those 

          19   permits under the paper system.  We've been trying to 

          20   manage around that for survey purposes, because that's 

          21   conducted by Fish and Wildlife Service.  But to give you a 

          22   flat number, I just don't have it off the top of my head. 

          23             For ducks, geese and mergansers, we're basically 

          24   proposing the same season we had a year ago.  We're still 

          25   in that liberal option -- that includes a two-day youth 


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           1   hunt and 74-day season in the north and south duck zones 

           2   and an expansion of that in the High Plain Mallard 

           3   Management Unit. 

           4             I would point out that we did consider, if you 

           5   will recall, back in April the possibility of a slight 

           6   modification of the north/south zone boundary.  We got 

           7   very little public comment and most of that was negative 

           8   to that change, and so we're not proposing that change. 

           9             Also, in the north and south duck zones, we are 

          10   using a combination of the TOCs season youth hunt and 

          11   regular duck season, 92 of the regular 107 hunting days.  

          12   Those 15 days that remain will be part of the extended 

          13   falconry season that continues on for 15 days after duck 

          14   season closes.  Falconry is not implicated in this light 

          15   goose management conservation order, so that's not a 

          16   problem.   

          17             The other consideration is to have a 25-day 

          18   canvasback season at the last 25 days of the regular duck 

          19   season.  As I said, public comment was light on these 

          20   issues, and as I briefed you yesterday there was a comment 

          21   from the Game Bird Advisory Board that we take very 

          22   seriously, and we'll look into, if you so wish.  And this 

          23   is your recommended adoption motion before you here.  

          24   "TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION adopts amendments to 

          25   31 TAC 65.314, 65.317, 65.318, 65.320 and 65.321 


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           1   concerning the migratory game bird proclamation with 

           2   changes to the proposed text (located in that Exhibit A) 

           3   as published in the April 27, 2001 issue of the Texas 

           4   Register." 

           5             To any comment, I would be glad to answer 

           6   questions.  

           7                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We have somebody that 

           8   would like to speak to this, David Langford.  David, I 

           9   think you were up to speak on the last issue, and I 

          10   stepped out of the room. 

          11                  MR. LANGFORD:  Thank you very much, Madame 

          12   Chairman and members of the Commission.  I would like to 

          13   thank you now former Vice Chairman Dinkins for her service 

          14   and also for your service on chairing the Governor's Task 

          15   Force.  I keep waiting -- since now that's a President's 

          16   Task Force, I keep waiting for that to appear on a 

          17   national agenda, and I guess whenever we get the Arabs and 

          18   Israelis to stop blowing up the world, maybe we'll get 

          19   that on the national issue.   

          20             I also congratulate the new Vice Chairman and 

          21   look forward to working you with you on your position.  

          22   I'll make it quick on both issues.   

          23             We support the staff recommendation on both 

          24   issues, and particularly on Item 10 and not quite so much 

          25   on Item 11, but it's a perfect example of how the 


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           1   Department works with the constituent groups.  They are 

           2   sometimes very, very disparate groups, particularly on 

           3   Item 10.  And, yet, it all comes together over a process 

           4   that involves everybody that's fair and open and that we 

           5   are proud to be a part of.  And I say that because of the 

           6   riverbed issue stuff.  I tried to pay careful attention 

           7   and maybe I missed it but I did get a -- a -- a -- an 

           8   indication that there was a direction from the Commission.  

           9   I know Commissioner Henry suggested that something come 

          10   forward in January on that riverbed issue.  I just want to 

          11   make sure that that issue gets put, like the migratory 

          12   seasons and Item No. 10, that we would get some direction 

          13   to keep going on that so that it doesn't get dropped.  

          14   Let's -- let's use these two as a model and move forward 

          15   with all the constituent groups.  Thank you very much. 

          16             Once again, Andy, thank you.  I enjoyed serving 

          17   the last 11 years.  And I'm sorry you didn't have a party 

          18   I could go to yesterday. 

          19                  MR. SANSOM:  Thank you, David. 

          20                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there any -- is there 

          21   any further discussion?  Is there a motion? 

          22                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  Approval.   

          23                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second. 

          24                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any further discussion?  

          25   All in favor, say aye.  Any opposed?  Hearing none, motion 


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           1   carries.   

           2             "TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION adopts  
                
           3             amendments to 31 TAC 65.314, 65.317, 65.318,                 

           4             65.320 and 65.321 concerning the migratory game         

           5             bird project with changes to the proposed text  

           6             (located in Exhibit A) as published in the April 

           7             27, 2001 issue of the Texas Register." (26      

           8             TexReg 3141) 

           9   AGENDA ITEM NO. 12:  ACTION - NOMINATION FOR OIL AND GAS 

          10   LEASE - GUS ENGELING WMA. 

          11                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  This brings us to agenda 

          12   Item No. 12, Kathy Boydston, Nomination of Oil and Gas 

          13   Lease. 

          14                  MS. BOYDSTON:  Madame Chairman, members of 

          15   the Commission, my name is Kathy Boydston.  I'm program 

          16   leader for the Wildlife Habitat Assessment Program.   

          17             What I'm offering you today is an oil and gas 

          18   nomination.  The Department received a request for oil and 

          19   gas in the Gus Engeling WMA in Anderson County.  It's a 

          20   111-acre tract within the 10,000 acres of the management 

          21   area.  The Department owns 50 percent of the minerals in 

          22   this tract.  Staff recommends the Commission follow the 

          23   standard policy, requiring a minimum bonus bid of 150 per 

          24   acre, a 25 percent royalty and ten-dollar per acre delay 

          25   rental for a term of three years.  We also recommend that 


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           1   the lease be subject to the Exhibit A restrictions.  The 

           2   first restriction would require the operator to locate on 

           3   an existing drill pad using existing access roads and 

           4   pipeline easements.  This would minimize disturbance to 

           5   the surface and also minimize the daily actions of the 

           6   wildlife management area.  The second restriction would 

           7   cover anything that the Department has concerns is not 

           8   included in a normal oil and gas lease.  The staff 

           9   recommends the following motion.  "The Executive Director 

          10   is authorized to nominate for oil and gas lease to the 

          11   Board for Lease for Parks and Wildlife lands the 

          12   Department's mineral interest in the Gus Engeling  

          13   Wildlife Management Area at 150 per acre with a 25 percent 

          14   royalty, ten-dollar per acre rental and a three-year term, 

          15   incorporating the restrictions set out in Exhibit A." 

          16             And I'll be glad to answer any questions. 

          17                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do we have any questions? 

          18                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  That doesn't make it 

          19   clear that that $150 is a minimum, does it? 

          20                  MS. BOYDSTON:  Would you like to amended 

          21   that motion?  We can do that. 

          22                  VICE CHAIR ANGELO:  It looks like it should 

          23   say "at a minimum". 

          24                  MS. BOYDSTON:  I apologize for that.  I can 

          25   do that. 


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           1                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Are there any other 

           2   questions?  Comments?  Do I have a motion on this item 

           3   with the amendment? 

           4                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Move. 

           5                  COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS:  Second. 

           6                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any further comment?   

           7   All in favor?  All opposed?  Hearing none, motion carries. 

           8             "The Executive Director is authorized to    

           9              nominate for oil and gas lease to the Board for  

          10             Lease for Parks and Wildlife Lands, the  

          11             Department's mineral interest in the Gus  

          12             Engeling Wildlife Management Area, a minimum bid      

          13             of $150 per acre with a 25 percent royalty,                         

          14             $10 per acre rental, and a three-year term,  

          15             incorporating the restrictions set out in  

          16             Exhibit A." 

          17   AGENDA ITEM NO. 13:  ACTION - LAND SALE - RICHLAND CREEK 

          18   WMA. 

          19                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We now are on Agenda 

          20   Item No. 13, Land Sale.  Ronnie Ray. 

          21                  MR. RAY:  Madame Chairman and 

          22   Commissioners, my name is Ronnie Ray, and I'm a project 

          23   manager with the Land Conservation Program.  The sale fo 

          24   13.15 acres in highway right-of-way to the Texas 

          25   Department of Transportation is proposed at Richland Creek 


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           1   WMA in Freestone County.  As compensation, TXDOT has 

           2   proposed to construct several facility and habitat 

           3   improvements at Richland Creek.  Staff recommends that the 

           4   Commission authorize Executive Director to take all 

           5   necessary steps to consummate the transfer of 

           6   approximately 13.15 acres at the Richland Creek Wildlife 

           7   Management Area to the Texas Department of Transportation 

           8   for road improvements along U.S. highway 287 in Freestone 

           9   County. 

          10             Do I have any questions? 

          11                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any questions or comments?  

          12   Do I have a motion? 

          13                  COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  So moved.   

          14                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second. 

          15                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any further comments?  All 

          16   in favor?  All opposed?  Hearing none, motion carries. 

          17                  MR. RAY:  Thank you.   

          18             "The Executive Director is authorized to take  

          19             all necessary steps to consummate the transfer 

          20             of approximately 13.15 acres at the Richland  

          21             Creek Wildlife Management Area to the Texas 

          22             Department of Transportation for road  

          23             improvements along U.S. Highway 287 in Freestone 

          24             County." 

          25   AGENDA ITEM NO. 14 - ACTION -0 LAND ACQUISITION - BASTROP 


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           1   STATE PARK 

           2                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Agenda Item No. 14, Land 

           3   Acquisition, Bastrop State Park.  Jeff Francell. 

           4                  MR. FRANCELL:  Madame Chairman, members of  

           5   the Commission, I'm Jeff Francell, Director of Land 

           6   Acquisition.  The item we're talking about today is in 

           7   Bastrop State Park.   

           8             Bastrop State Park is about 30 miles east from 

           9   here.  It may be under water right now with the rain we're 

          10   having.  It's one of our ten most popular state parks. 

          11   Bastrop State Park is home to federally endangered Houston 

          12   toads.   

          13             Last year, Parks and Wildlife added a 1,000-acre 

          14   track to Bastrop State Park.  After doing that, the 

          15   federal government awarded Parks and Wildlife 1.5 million 

          16   dollars for additional land at Bastrop State Park.  In 

          17   April of this year, the owners of the largest tract 

          18   adjacent to the state park offered the property to Parks 

          19   and Wildlife.  This is the tract here on the map.  It's 

          20   1300 acres with an access to State Highway 21 and has 

          21   several miles of frontage along Allan Creek.  And this is 

          22   the recommendation. 

          23             Any questions? 

          24                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any questions?  Comments?  

          25   Do we have a motion? 


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           1                  COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  So moved. 

           2                  COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second. 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  All in favor?  Opposed?  

           4   Motion carries.   

           5             "The Executive Director is authorized to take  

           6             all steps necessary to purchase approximately 

           7             1275 acres in Bastrop County as an addition to 

           8             Bastrop State Park." 

           9   AGENDA ITEM NO. 15:  ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - PRESIDIO 

          10   COUNTY - BIG BEND RANCH. 

          11                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Agenda Item 15, Land 

          12   Acquisition Presidio County, Karen Leslie. 

          13                  MS. LESLIE:  Commissioners, I'm Karen 

          14   Leslie in Land Conservation, Project Manager.  This item 

          15   reflects a summary of the Conservation Committee Executive 

          16   Session item presented yesterday.  This item is for land 

          17   acquisition of two tracts totalling approximately 1,695 

          18   acres as an addition to Big Bend Ranch State Park.  The 

          19   property provides river access and will protect an 

          20   important archeological site in the park.  Staff 

          21   recommends the Commission consider the motion to purchase 

          22   the property. 

          23             Any questions?   

          24                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  No questions, discussion? 

          25                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Approval. 


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           1                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Do I have a second? 

           2                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second. 

           3                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Oh.  All in favor?  

           4   Opposed?  Motion carries.   

           5             "The Executive Director is authorized to take  

           6             all steps necessary to purchase approximately 

           7             320 acres described as Section No. 28, Jose  

           8             Maria Borillo, Presidio County, and  

           9             approximately 1,375 acres described as Section 

          10             No. 39 and Section No. 41, Block 349, GC&SF 

          11             Ry. Co., Presidio County, to be part of Big Bend 

          12             Ranch State Park." 

          13   AGENDA ITEM NO. 16:  ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - HARDIN 

          14   COUNTY 

          15                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Item 16, Land Acquisition, 

          16   Hardin County.  Karen. 

          17                  MS. LESLIE:  Madame Chairman and 

          18   Commissioners, this item also reflects a summary of our 

          19   discussion yesterday in Executive Session.  This item is 

          20   for land acquisition of approximately 45 acres adjacent to 

          21   Village Creek State Park.  The property is recommended for 

          22   buffer and to protect a long-leaf pine Savannah, a very 

          23   rare and localized community type. 

          24             Staff recommends the Commission consider the 

          25   motion before you to acquire the property. 


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           1             Any questions? 

           2                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any questions or 

           3   discussion?  Do I have a motion? 

           4                  COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Move approval. 

           5                  COMMISSIONER RAMOS:  Second. 

           6                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Any other discussion?  All 

           7   in favor?  Opposed?  Hearing none, motion carries.   

           8                       MS. LESLIE:  Thank you. 

           9             "The Executive Director is authorized to take 

          10             all steps necessary to purchase approximately 

          11             45.78 acres in Hardin County as an addition to 

          12             Village Creek State Park." 

          13                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  Mr. Sansom, is there any 

          14   other business before us this morning? 

          15                  MR. SANSOM:  No, ma'am. 

          16                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  We will recess now and 

          17   break for Executive Session, and we'll be back here this 

          18   afternoon. 

          19                       (Whereupon an Executive Session was 

          20                       held, after which the following  

          21                       proceedings were had:) 

          22                  CHAIRMAN IDSAL:  First, I want to end the 

          23   Executive Session and I want to formally close the public 

          24   meeting -- adjourn the public meeting. 

          25                       (Adjourned.) 


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           1   STATE OF TEXAS  ) 

           2   COUNTY OF TRAVIS) 

           3                 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 

           4             I, Rhonda Howard, Certified Shorthand Reporter in 

           5   and for the State of Texas, hereby certify that on August 

           6   30, 2001, I was present at the Texas Parks and Wildlife 

           7   Commission for committee meetings and that this is a true 

           8   and complete transcript of the proceedings. 

           9            I further certify that the proceedings were put 

          10   into writing by myself with the help of Lori Estrada of 

          11   the TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION. 

          12             I further certify that I am neither counsel for,  

          13   related to, nor employed by any of the parties or 

          14   attorneys in the action in which this proceeding was 

          15   taken, and further that I am not financially or otherwise 

          16   interested in the outcome of the action. 

          17             Certified to by me, this 28th day of September,  

          18   2001. 

          19                     _____________________________________ 

          20                       ____________________________ 
                                   RHONDA HOWARD, Texas CSR No. 4136 
          21                       Expiration Date 12/31/02 
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          24   

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